Hand of the week: December 10th

[LuckyLloyd]

I wanted to bet the flop. But we didn't. We checked the flop to hopefully get him to do something on the turn. Silly stuff IMO, but whatever, if that's the plan for the hand we should now check again.

[OffTheRadar]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

[LuckyLloyd]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

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[bolt pp]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

cuuuuurghshjhugugugugugusojoijjshshdkfhfhgfdkjdsgdfgfkjdbg

fyp

[Graham C]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

You've raised preflop so villian is assuming something, what does he put you on?  Probably something quite good.  Checking the flop after raising before it isn't a good move I don't think.   If he's not bet on the flop, I can't see a Q making him likely to bet.  Assuming we're still ahead and the queen has helped him, you'd have to put him on AQ or KQ here and given our actions up to now, I wouldn't have thought he's going to go crazy with TPTK at the moment.

Need to be betting still and hoping the queen has helped him (but not helped enough for trip queens obv)  If it has, I'd expect a call, if not then he'll perhaps fold but you'd not be getting any more chips off him anyway.

[boldie]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

Why is villain folding most of the time when you bet on the flop? You have no info on Villain other than that he has been building a very nice chipstack. Unless he is Mr Lucky Luck from Lucksville he is probably one of the few other players that is not scared to play in this tourney and therefore won't fold like a cheap suit everytime someone bets into him. You can always give Villain here room to hang himself by leading out on the flop.


As for betting on the turn...I don't mind a bet on the turn (in fact I advocated it) but not because "I hope it has helped him in some way" that's just not right. There are but a few hands that the Q will have helped that he gets his chips in with (AQ and QQ really being the only ones) if you lead out here he is more than likely to fold anything worse..(maybe get a flat call out of him when he holds KQ...in which case he probably is Lucky Luckbox from Lucksville..or when he holds the old J9 K10) as he knows you should have something better than just a shitty queen here...so;.

You're not hoping that the Queen "helped his hand in some way"..the queen is a card YOU represent when you bet out, not one you hope HE HAS. You're hoping he already has a hand which is not afraid of the queen..and if he has a hand like that he already would have given you action on the flop..so there is no reason not to bet out on the flop for that reason.

I like Lloyds line now that we haven't bet out on the flop and now that I've thought about it as you're wanting him to take a stab at the pot.. Although I bet out with most of my sets on the flop and there fore don't find myself in this situation very often I am not quite sure as to what line to take here with regards to check-raising/check-calling and what to do on the turn and would be interested to hear it (Check call turn check raise river would be my guess) . (I shall therefore now withdraw from this thread and just read what the Laggie McLagLag's like Lloyd and Flushy think.

[Royal Flush]

I wanted to bet the flop. But we didn't. We checked the flop to hopefully get him to do something on the turn. Silly stuff IMO, but whatever, if that's the plan for the hand we should now check again.

Why is checking the flop silly? The pot already equates to 1/3rd our stack, pot building here is not really as important.

[Longy]

I wanted to bet the flop. But we didn't. We checked the flop to hopefully get him to do something on the turn. Silly stuff IMO, but whatever, if that's the plan for the hand we should now check again.

Why is checking the flop silly? The pot already equates to 1/3rd our stack, pot building here is not really as important.

Erm not strictly true, you have 116k back with a pot of 37k. Two streets of value don't get you full stack in here unless you massively overbet the river. We now need him to do some of the work for us by raising or betting. It is an important skill to realise how many streets of value you can get from your hand and how many you need given the stacks to reach our ultimate goal.

Also i will say for the last time villan here RARELY has a big hand preflop here, this is why its a good flop to bet and why the q is probably a bad card in that its an action killer.

[TightEnd]

but if the read of a sub 1010 pair or suited connectors is correct, as most of us seem to think

then shouldn't we check here again and then make a "desperate" overbet on the river?

I would have bet the flop, but as we didn't and we think the Q is an action killer, we have to check it again don't we and then make it look like an attempt to buy pot on river?

[doubleup]

i decided to check

I've lost interest and flown to Paris.  I had kangaroo for lunch although I suspect it might actually have been wallaby.

[LuckyLloyd]

I wanted to bet the flop. But we didn't. We checked the flop to hopefully get him to do something on the turn. Silly stuff IMO, but whatever, if that's the plan for the hand we should now check again.

Why is checking the flop silly? The pot already equates to 1/3rd our stack, pot building here is not really as important.

For the reasons stated in my earlier post.

[LuckyLloyd]

(I shall therefore now withdraw from this thread and just read what the Laggie McLagLag's like Lloyd and Flushy think).

I really am a nit. Seriously. Tight as a drum.

[AlexMartin]

i decided to check

I've lost interest and flown to Paris.  I had kangaroo for lunch although I suspect it might actually have been wallaby.

pmsl

[OffTheRadar]

Nothing wrong with the check at all IMO. People talk about building a big pot but if you bet out I think most of the time villain is folding - you need to give him a chance to take a stab or at least catch up on the turn.

I'd now be betting around 25k on the turn and hope the Q has helped his hand in some way.

Why is villain folding most of the time when you bet on the flop? You have no info on Villain other than that he has been building a very nice chipstack. Unless he is Mr Lucky Luck from Lucksville he is probably one of the few other players that is not scared to play in this tourney and therefore won't fold like a cheap suit everytime someone bets into him. You can always give Villain here room to hang himself by leading out on the flop.

I'd expect him to fold to any bet because of the kind of hand I put him on and the kind of hand I think he's putting me on. I suppose there's a chance he plays back with 88 or 99 but with no real draws out there apart from 89 the chances are he missed completely. If he flopped a set you're getting his chips however the hand plays out.

As for betting on the turn...I don't mind a bet on the turn (in fact I advocated it) but not because "I hope it has helped him in some way" that's just not right. There are but a few hands that the Q will have helped that he gets his chips in with (AQ and QQ really being the only ones) if you lead out here he is more than likely to fold anything worse..(maybe get a flat call out of him when he holds KQ...in which case he probably is Lucky Luckbox from Lucksville..or when he holds the old J9 K10) as he knows you should have something better than just a shitty queen here...so;.

Its a tough pot to get anything out of whatever way you look at it. I know its grasping at straws a little but IMO there's a better chance he has a Q in his hand than any kind of hand that was helped by that flop.

You're not hoping that the Queen "helped his hand in some way"..the queen is a card YOU represent when you bet out, not one you hope HE HAS. You're hoping he already has a hand which is not afraid of the queen..and if he has a hand like that he already would have given you action on the flop..so there is no reason not to bet out on the flop for that reason.

You've lost me a little there mate. If you're representing the Q you're hoping he has KK+ in which case you would have got him to play back on the flop anyway. The whole point of checking the flop was to either let him take a stab or give him a free card to improve.

[MANTIS01]

OK. Some of the theories about this hand are losing me.

Firstly, the cl has just arrived at the table and we have never played with him before. How do we even begin to put him on a hand....where would we start? I don't think plucking a range of hands from thin air and pasting them into this situation is at all helpful. The cl could have anything and his style of play is unknown.

So what do we KNOW? We know he is the cl and he has been winning pots-a-plenty....so he will be feeling confident about now. His eagerness to carry forward what was happening on his previous table to this one is clear because he limps into the first available pot he can. He is not looking to settle in and size the table up, he wants to get involved and he wants to do that by limping early. He does not choose to get involved in his first pot aggressively. I think that is an important fact.

When the raise comes in everyone gets out of the way (because they don't have raising hands) apart from the cl. He calls with a hand he wouldn't raise with. The information we have is scant for sure...but we can assume from what information we do have that the cl is not the most aggressive player. He is limping and calling rather than betting and raising. What's more his cl status and current high confidence mean that he is not going to be pushed out of a pot he wants to play.

So with this in mind where does the check on the flop come from?? I would bet the flop regardless of any other information actually....for all the reasons that have already been stated. But using the information we do have suggests pot-building can begin immediately. Why check to the caller hoping he suddenly finds the balls to take the lead when he has already shown he doesn't do this? But if you take the lead he has shown an inclination to follow! Information is there to be used and this is the ONLY information we have. He is CALLING your bets so why wouldn't you bet?