Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[MANTIS01]

Personally my tolerance is to avoid daily arguments by confronting the burger van lady, the hairdresser, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker but of course people are free to do so if they wish. People are also free to feel embarrassed and ashamed every day if they wish.

[MANTIS01]

That said if I saw a gang of white lads assaulting a black kid I would readily put my life in the line to intervene. Kinda like if a whale was washed up on the beach

[kukushkin88]

I'd hoped the line would be drawn the other side of racially motivated violence, a long way the other side. Not sure what to say about the whale.

[Doobs]

But it is a lot less hassle talking to somebody than it is stepping in a fight.  But like it isn't so easy to throw a whale back in the water. 

Personally, sometimes I'll say something, sometimes I won't.  It really just depends. 

[RED-DOG]

How are we supposed to have a relationship on your father's diary if this is how long you take to reply?

 I'm sure a man of your calibre is used to the ladies hanging on his every word, but I'm afraid my attentions are also very much in demand, so much so that I decided a while back that I was probably better off spending my small amount of recreational time on something with less bitching and drama and more emotional depth than a poker forum, like a T.O.W.I.E box set or something.

But I recently started having the odd peek again, mostly to read the politics thread during Brexit and I now I'm having a nose through every couple of days but not really taking part except for the odd congratulations and such.
Then before I knew it, chords were struck and nerves were hit and I waded in in spite of myself. Now I'm checking up and it's like I've got a cross line with the Krankies.

Does anyone know what we are actually discussing here? Including me? I'm not even sure who is taking the mick or not, except for Tikay of course, but even a women who would rescue Starfish can recognise when someone is a complete waste of energy....

Apologies for my tardy response and whilst I can confirm the ladies used to hang on my every word it does appear that as I get older the ladies and indeed the hanging are both in decline.

I too feel the cross line vibe and cannot decipher if your post is flirting with me and taking the piss out of Tikay at the same time. If that's correct I agree with everything.

If your time is limited then perhaps we can accept that I considered the stuff you raised in your original reply before I posted in the first place?

But in all seriousness the original request was advice about a minor social faux pas and thus a 'starfish metaphor' where creatures suffer and die...allowing us to seamlessly arrive at babies lying in the gutter...deserves to be challenged, so I did. That said I do believe the challenge stimulated interesting debate about smashing Starfish with golf clubs, kicking them into the see with flip flops and cutting their arms off with spades. Unfortunately all very entertaining. I'm not really spiritual but I do wonder why God keeps washing these creatures up on the beach in the first place? But what I really wonder is if instead of starfish the stricken creatures were big fat Cromer crabs or juicy lobsters whether our charitable friends would act in similar fashion?

Haha! I must agree things escalated quickly, I'm afraid I do tend to resort to the dramatic but I shall try to explain what I was getting at.
Old Dog asks a question, which IMO was a pointless exercise as very few people will have been in anything like the described situation and therefore can't really give an appropriate answer.
When I say the described situation, I don't mean racism in general as there are always going to be bigots and haters and people who go out of there way to make life miserable for their fellow humans, I mean you are talking to someone in a normal friendly day to day setting all fine and dandy, that person may be a burger van lady or a school teacher in front of your children or your hair dresser in a packed salon and everything is just marvellous, and then that person says something like, 'We used to have Sunday lunch in that pub but then the pikeys from the site started using it so we don't go in anymore' or 'Our dog went missing and someone said they saw a Transit van in the area, I know some gyppo scum has nicked it' or worse, sometimes a lot worse.
Now to add a little extra insult no-one else present bats an eyelid at these statements. No sharps intakes of breath, no awkward 'that's not very P.C.' grimaces, nothing. In fact they start agreeing, and adding their own two penneth.

So this is a scenario, the 'minor social faux pas'.
Why say anything? I mean, my ethnicity isn't given away by the amount of melanin in my skin, or my accent, or the clothing I may choose/be forced to wear so why embarrass myself or the person I'm speaking to by announcing it?
Well for a start, I'm already embarrassed. My stomach has just dropped like a stone, I'm blushing and my heart is beating like a trip hammer. I can't help this reaction no matter how much I would like to.
And I am angry. I'm angry because they have made me feel ashamed, I'm angry because they think people like me are lower than shite, even though they probably never met any people like me, I'm angry because most of the things they are saying aren't true but that won't stop them teaching their prejudices to their children who will in turn use them to judge my children, I'm angry because good, good people I know have to face this outrage year in year out through no fault of their own but mostly I'm angry cos it's so bloody unfair, they are inviting me in their homes, talking to me, laughing with me, they are complimenting me on my well behaved kids and hurting me in the same breath. It's excruciating everytime, and it happens to me way too often.


So, I wait for them to finish, I look them dead in the eye and I say 'I'm a Gypsy'
Sometimes I feel sorry when they start to stutter and try to back peddle, even though I haven't done anything to feel sorry for.  I won't be made to feel bad for highlighting someones casual racism, but I do accept their apologies and promises to not to 'tar everyone with the brush' in future.
It doesn't change the event for either of us but maybe they will think twice about what they say next time, or even better when someone else is spewing the usual hate they will say 'I know some Gypsies, and they are actually quite nice'

I might only change one persons opinion in a thousand, but that is my Starfish, and I'll keep throwing it back.

And there we go, from having a peep at the forum every couple of days, not really contributing....to several comprehensive, insightful interactions within a day. Maybe I do still have a stimulating effect on women.

Anyhows please allow me to explain what I was getting at.

Example 1: I'm at the barbers, a normal everyday setting all fine and dandy. The barber is cutting my hair and indulging in friendly conversation with me and the other waiting gents. The chatter turns to the football match which is being shown on sky later that day and he says "I hope my wife lets me watch the match". The response from one of the other fellas is "Tell her to get in the kitchen where she belongs and cook the dinner". A few of them laugh "Yeah yeah explain to her that offside is when she isn't cleaning the oven" Hahaha. Personally I find these proper stupid remarks, they are just casual throw away comments but it shows a deeper disrespect of women who are beautiful and intelligent creatures, undoubtedly the equals of men. Should I start getting angry and start educating everybody in the shop?

Example 2: I'm at the local curry house, a normal everyday setting, all fine and dandy. There are a group of lads who are a bit drunk. They call the waiter over in a mock Indian accent "More poppadums thankyou please" like this guy isn't their equal and everybody laughs. Should I start getting angry and start educating everybody in the restaurant. I mean if I don't these views could be copied by others.

I hope you appreciate I could give you a thousand examples.

Now when I read your words about how much negative emotion these everyday encounters stimulate in you, being angry and ashamed, I remain confident in my original advice that we should not allow this ignorance to destabilise us to such a degree. If we did every day would be so exhausting, such a battle....because folk say stupid stuff every day of the week without even realising why. The vast majority is superficial ignorance and it really isn't deep-rooted malice. I must admit I do find it interesting when people only get offended by ignorance that is specific to their own race or religion, the same emotion isn't present when confronted by other forms of everyday ignorance. Surely if we're going to throw starfish we can't walk down the beach picking and choosing a select few starfish to throw back, only these starfish matter, we walk on by the vast majority of stricken starfish because they don't apply. Because then our words about the poor starfish aren't very credible.

My own view is have the confidence to take such nonsense in your stride, hold your head high and don't let people control you in the negative. Who are these trivial individuals to make you feel this way, to have such sway over your emotions? Perhaps look around the hairdressers and notice the lady who knowingly rolls her eyes and is on your wavelength. Perhaps don't use that hairdresser again. But whatever, don't let it ruin your day, control you. You may only change one in a thousand but I say that is a terrible ROI for all your efforts. It's like throwing a thousand starfish and only one reaching the ocean. If that's what you want to do then cool but personally I would prefer to leave the starfish alone and go down the pub with friends. I mean for all the negative emotion writing that post conjured in your mind it made your dad proud and that's the emotion that would matter to me. Everything else is trivial and pointless, a waste of time, just like throwing starfish back into the sea, only for them to be washed up again tomorrow.

I could make a long and detailed reply here, but I guess I'll just take Mantis's advice and let it go.

[MANTIS01]

But it is a lot less hassle talking to somebody than it is stepping in a fight.  But like it isn't so easy to throw a whale back in the water. 

Personally, sometimes I'll say something, sometimes I won't.  It really just depends. 

Yo, can you describe some of the times when you said something and why? Can you also detail the times when you haven't. Of course you don't have to but genuinely interested to understand what variables would cause somebody to change strategy to something they are passionate about. It's like walking down the beach and sometimes throwing starfish and sometimes not.

[nirvana]

But it is a lot less hassle talking to somebody than it is stepping in a fight.  But like it isn't so easy to throw a whale back in the water. 

Personally, sometimes I'll say something, sometimes I won't.  It really just depends. 

Yo, can you describe some of the times when you said something and why? Can you also detail the times when you haven't. Of course you don't have to but genuinely interested to understand what variables would cause somebody to change strategy to something they are passionate about. It's like walking down the beach and sometimes throwing starfish and sometimes not.

I always say something if I think I can beat the person up. If they are bigger than me and look hard I tend to let it go

[bobAlike]

Personally I think you should have said something. I don't believe you should come down hard but just a polite word or 2. Still buy the food though.

The trouble is down to a few bad pennies in all walks of life that give the vast majority a bad name. Not too far away from where I live there is a traveller caravan site, predominantly Irish Travellers. This site is a stones throw away from a huge super market. My family refuse to use this supermarket now because of trouble we have witnessed both outside and in. Unfortunately, if there is any trouble in the area now, 'Gypsies' are to blame is the common chorus. I don't know many travellers at all and can honestly say the Gypsies I do know have always been respectful and decent people. I of course have ALWAYS state that my experience is different from their perception. I do this for the simple reason that if it was me who was getting insulted I would hate it.

[Redsgirl]

Just got in after a very long day so not going to say much (for once) but thanks for all the nice replies,  I'm like totes emosh and everything.

So many points have been raised (and missed  ) in the last few days I'm sure that we will be back here again, but it's late and I've got a curry in the microwave so until next time boys and girls xx
 

[RED-DOG]

This is the stuff that makes Britain great.


Warning! Contains spoilers.



The Archers: Verdict revealed in Helen Titchener trial - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37333372


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1fZ18tXdYCGblCxzmJvTQ6N/we-believe-you-fans-react-to-the-archers-trial-verdict

[tikay]

This is the stuff that makes Britain great.


Warning! Contains spoilers.



The Archers: Verdict revealed in Helen Titchener trial - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37333372


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1fZ18tXdYCGblCxzmJvTQ6N/we-believe-you-fans-react-to-the-archers-trial-verdict

Shite.

[Nakor]

This is the stuff that makes Britain great.


Warning! Contains spoilers.



The Archers: Verdict revealed in Helen Titchener trial - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37333372


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1fZ18tXdYCGblCxzmJvTQ6N/we-believe-you-fans-react-to-the-archers-trial-verdict

Shite.

Actually the deliberation/verdict episode was really well done.
Very entertaining, far better then that proms Shite

[RED-DOG]

This is the stuff that makes Britain great.


Warning! Contains spoilers.



The Archers: Verdict revealed in Helen Titchener trial - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37333372


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1fZ18tXdYCGblCxzmJvTQ6N/we-believe-you-fans-react-to-the-archers-trial-verdict

Shite.

Actually the deliberation/verdict episode was really well done.
Very entertaining, far better then that proms Shite

There speaks a man of good taste and breeding.


Actually, I thought the proms was good to, I was just trying to highlight how much of a hypocrite old Mr Kendall OBE really is.



If tikay were a horse....

[RED-DOG]

No point trying to tell him that though, he thinks he's like..

[RED-DOG]

Gill and Tony.

Click to see full-size image.