Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

Loved reading about the road trip Tom. Great diary You watching channel 5 tonight 9pm

The Gypsy kids thing? Bugger! I knew about it and then forgot to watch it.

[Karabiner]

Loved reading about the road trip Tom. Great diary You watching channel 5 tonight 9pm

The Gypsy kids thing? Bugger! I knew about it and then forgot to watch it.

I loved them too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mifnMC_Kn1Q

[RED-DOG]

I have a problem that I've been wrestling with for ages, some feedback would be very welcome.

By way of explanation, let me give you a couple of examples.

On Wednesday I took Bridie's car to the dent man to have a car-park ding repaired. While I was waiting I walked over the road to a well established burger van for a bacon sandwich. Outside the van there is a wooden 'gazebo' type shelter for customers to stand under.

The lady in the van was very chatty and likeable. We talked about things like the ever increasing amount of legislation governing the catering industry and the art of cooking proper crispy bacon. During our conversation I commented on the gazebo, complimenting it's usefulness and sturdiness. She told me that it used to be even more sturdy, but that a while ago, someone in a white van had reversed in to it and then driven away. "Probably a Gypsy" She confided.

On Thursday I took the rear wheel off my scooter and took it to a local garage to have a new tyre fitted. While I was waiting for it to be done I got chatting to a bloke who was waiting for a puncture repair.

It turned out that this chap was a local fireman and before that, a doorman in Nottingham. He was an interesting bloke, we had a fair bit in common and generally got on very well. Then, while talking about his work with the fire service he said that most of his shouts were either road traffic accidents, chip-pan fires, or cars that have been stolen and set alight by pikeys.

Now he's a nice bloke and I know he meant no harm. He isn't being intentionally racist or xenophobic, for him it's just an acceptable thing to say and no one has ever suggested otherwise.

Now I am in a quandary. I want to ask him what a pikey is exactly, or how he knows it's pikeys that set the cars alight, or point out that I am what he would call a pikey, but...

If I do, he will either go on the defensive, or, more likely, be terribly embarrassed about the whole thing. Either way it's the end of our nice relaxed, normal everyday type conversation.

It's the same with the lady in the burger van. To her the remark was just a throw away line. If I say something, I will make her feel terrible, which is probably a good thing, but I'm fed up of doing it.

So what do I do? (Genuine question). I'm so tired of pulling people up about stuff like this all the time, especially when they don't know any better and didn't really mean any harm anyway, but if I say nothing I feel like I'm going along with the idea that it's OK to judge people by their ethnicity and that makes me feel bad too.
 

[hector62]

Afternoon Mr red dog.

You won't change anything if you don't say something. Personally I would go for the " I know where you are coming from as Gypsies have a bad reputation. But I am in fact a Gypsy, proud of it, and wouldn't dream of acting like that and neither would any of the Gypsies that I interact with."

You may even get a free bacon sandwich.

[atdc21]

Hi Tom,
           I did write a long post out but when i read it back it didn't seem right for what i was trying to say. Basically there is no easy answer , maybe say something along the lines of ' there is good and bad in all Races, Creeds and walks of life , you maybe able to then introduce your background in, without it seeming like you are just jumping at him/her, dunno really, have had similar when i have been with Gypsy friends and other people i know have turned up and have been emmbarressed myself by there words/attitudes.

[atdc21]

Hah, beaten by Hector 

[nirvana]

 Maybe not with the same level of direct affront you may feel but I think we've all been there. For people I'm pretty familiar with I doubt I've ever let it pass. For the situation you describe I tend to water things down with something along the lines "my experience is different from yours, I've always found xyz to be (insert something positive)" . Doesn't change much but their language with me usually changes.

[Doobs]

I think it is worth asking the fireman what exactly he means by pikey, because the language moves and many people aren't going to associate the word with Gypsies.   There is a good chance he really doesn't think you are a pikey and he just means the local hoodlums.   I don't know what I'd do if he really did mean Gypsies, but hopefully he didn't and you can then just explain why the word is offensive to you.

[MANTIS01]

What happened here? Did somebody die? If nothing serious occurred I would just keep calm and carry on. I mean how exhausting to go round correcting everybody you meet who utters a throw away remark in a casual social situation, thinking about it, fretting about it, needing to educate people about it. No doubt that is a fine and noble pursuit but it's like trying to put out a forest fire with a water pistol, very time consuming very exhausting. The time spent wondering about such a remark is disproportional to the value of the remark, it's not worth that burger woman or whoever having such sway over your valuable life time. This is not serious deep-rooted views being uttered around the debating table, this is woman at the burger van. If you can't take it in your stride, can't flash ur pearly whites and get extra onions, win the minor social situation, then get ur burgers from another van imo.

People say stupid stuff without knowing why every day of the week, the burger woman probably doesn't know what a Gypsy is, thinks it's a tinker, a scally, whatever. Shall we go and find out if she has deep bigot views and start our social educational programme with her? Or shall we just deflect such mild social awkwardness with our winning confidence? Either say something immediately, smile it off or don't think about it again is my advice.

I had an interview a few years ago and the MD said about the venue...in a friggin high level interview..."It's like Delhi in here on a Friday night". I was shocked and pretty offended by that remark but I shrugged it off. Sure thing I can stop the interview and make the fella feel awkward, and myself feel awkward, and not get offered the job, or I can shrug it off. Best of a bad situation imo and I simply didn't take the position when it was offered. If we want to go round challenging mild bigot remarks we can't just stop at our own race or religion right? We have to attack all forms with equal vigour. Now that's gonna be exhausting.

[Tal]

While wandering a deserted beach at dawn, stagnant in my work, I saw a man in the distance bending and throwing as he walked the endless stretch toward me. As he came near, I could see that he was throwing starfish, abandoned on the sand by the tide, back into the sea.

When he was close enough I asked him why he was working so hard at this strange task. He said that the sun would dry the starfish and they would die. I said to him that I thought he was foolish. There were thousands of starfish on miles and miles of beach. One man alone could never make a difference. He smiled as he picked up the next starfish.

Hurling it far into the sea he said, "It makes a difference for this one."

I abandoned my writing and spent the morning throwing starfish.

           - Loren Eiseley

[MANTIS01]

Nice poem.

Like I said, did anybody die? Starfish included?

[tikay]

While wandering a deserted beach at dawn, stagnant in my work, I saw a man in the distance bending and throwing as he walked the endless stretch toward me. As he came near, I could see that he was throwing starfish, abandoned on the sand by the tide, back into the sea.

When he was close enough I asked him why he was working so hard at this strange task. He said that the sun would dry the starfish and they would die. I said to him that I thought he was foolish. There were thousands of starfish on miles and miles of beach. One man alone could never make a difference. He smiled as he picked up the next starfish.

Hurling it far into the sea he said, "It makes a difference for this one."

I abandoned my writing and spent the morning throwing starfish.

           - Loren Eiseley

Please. It's "Starfish", not "starfish".

Starfish have rights too, you know.

[RED-DOG]

Thanks for the replies everyone. (Except Tony obv)

[Redsgirl]

While wandering a deserted beach at dawn, stagnant in my work, I saw a man in the distance bending and throwing as he walked the endless stretch toward me. As he came near, I could see that he was throwing starfish, abandoned on the sand by the tide, back into the sea.

When he was close enough I asked him why he was working so hard at this strange task. He said that the sun would dry the starfish and they would die. I said to him that I thought he was foolish. There were thousands of starfish on miles and miles of beach. One man alone could never make a difference. He smiled as he picked up the next starfish.

Hurling it far into the sea he said, "It makes a difference for this one."

I abandoned my writing and spent the morning throwing starfish.

           - Loren Eiseley

I hear you Bro.

[RED-DOG]

I like people who go to the library.