Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[GreekStein]

In that case you should be staying away then Tom.

This is particularly true on days where every pot is straddled. You are effectively playing out of your bankroll.

Perhaps play 1/2 when it is normal then head for the .50/1 or a different 1/2 if it gets too big.

I know the temptation to stay is very high because you see all that money just waiting to be won but if the game is playing effectively as a 2/5 then you're under rolled and are just in there for the gamble.

That's not the way to play when it's your livelyhood.

I know you always sit full stacked and often 200 bb+ but if there's 10k at the table and people are straddling you aren't far from short stacking.

Not necessarily Matt...only if the straddle is mandatory. You're still sitting with the same amount you normally do, you just have to adjust your play and ranges.

Sometimes a £1/2/4 game can be particularly good value especially if you're not putting in the £4. People's ranges actually widen and I've seen some ridiculous spew which stems from that £4 in the middle. If you're prepared to just sit there and play a very tight game you'll only need to play about 3 pots over the course of an evening and you could still make a lot of money.

This is the key. I've already mentioned tightening up and playing position more in these crazy games.

Yes people's ranges widen meaning there a chance of winning big but that's where the variance problem comes in. You may end up in a 5 way pot with £100 in the middle when you see a flop. Yo may have been ahead with your AQs pre flop. What do you do on the Q high board 5 way though? Do you go with it?

If your roll is adequate then of course but when someone shows willingness to invest a lot in to the pot you're going to be put to the test for a big chunk of your bankroll.

When you're playing off a restricted bankroll you don't want to be in a game with lots of people with wide ranges. You're just going to end up in huge multi way pots. Yes you'll win more then you lose but the variance is going to hit hard.

Hmm I partly agree and partly disagree but it's not like Tom is down to his last 10 buy ins. Even with a 20 buy in live roll (so £4k) I think playing in loose games like these is a good strategy. £100 in the middle on the Q75 and we have £180 back, ez game imo (bet £70/cawl). We're much more likely to get paid by QJ and QK and people gambling with 68 and 78 etc than when people actually have us beat.

You've also taken an extreme example - AQ would be towards the very bottom of Tom's range employing a tight strategy and he's not going to pick up that many callers every time. Playing the game this way means that Tom is more likely going to be the one with KK on the Q high flop getting paiiiid by AQ.

At 20 buy ins I'd take a 5 buy in shot at this game (if i was Tom - if i was me I'd take a 2 buy in shot at a bigger game lol) and if we really do continue to run terrabad then I'd move down to the much easier and more steady £0.5/1 game.

[RED-DOG]

All good stuff. Tx Cos.

[kinboshi]

Maybe a £1/2 game without a live straddle, or with a sit-down limit of £300 (or whatever amount) might bridge the gap between the 50p/£1 tables and the £1/2 tables at DTD?

Yes. Definitely worth considering.

I mention it in my previous post but if you sit sit down with £300 at a 1/2 game which is regularly being straddled to 4 then you are short stacking. Actually you are mid stacking at 75bbs which is an awful stack to manage effectively.

There's no way to bridge the gap. Either play 1/2 or .50/1 full stacked or short stacked. Don't play 1/2/4 mid stacked imo.

Think you've misinterpreted my post Matt.  I was suggesting a different table be introduced at DTD that bridges the .50/1 and the 1/2 tables.  It could be a limited sit-down or not allow straddles.  Those who want to sit down with more or straddle can sit on the other tables.  I'm guessing there's a valid reason why DTD hasn't introduced them, or maybe there's just not the demand for them?

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you've said and I also think that playing scared is a guaranteed way to play badly. 

[EvilPie]

At 20 buy ins I'd take a 5 buy in shot at this game (if i was Tom - if i was me I'd take a 2 buy in shot at a bigger game lol) and if we really do continue to run terrabad then I'd move down to the much easier and more steady £0.5/1 game.

When your bankroll includes money to pay the bills and provide food for your family 'taking a shot' as you put it is ridiculous.

The thing is Tom can't afford to run bad for a short period. He's already taken the shot in this game and the bad run is what's got him where he is right now.

If he takes a 5 buy in shot and wins 10 buy ins what does he do next? Walk away from the 'shot' because he's up a bit? Or does he carry on hoping that it continues?

He need to get this sorted quickly and come up with a short strategy to ensure that he can continue to play poker as a long term career.

I really don't see where 'taking a shot' with 25% of what he's got left would come in to this.

[EvilPie]

Maybe a £1/2 game without a live straddle, or with a sit-down limit of £300 (or whatever amount) might bridge the gap between the 50p/£1 tables and the £1/2 tables at DTD?

Yes. Definitely worth considering.

I mention it in my previous post but if you sit sit down with £300 at a 1/2 game which is regularly being straddled to 4 then you are short stacking. Actually you are mid stacking at 75bbs which is an awful stack to manage effectively.

There's no way to bridge the gap. Either play 1/2 or .50/1 full stacked or short stacked. Don't play 1/2/4 mid stacked imo.

Think you've misinterpreted my post Matt.  I was suggesting a different table be introduced at DTD that bridges the .50/1 and the 1/2 tables.  It could be a limited sit-down or not allow straddles.  Those who want to sit down with more or straddle can sit on the other tables.  I'm guessing there's a valid reason why DTD hasn't introduced them, or maybe there's just not the demand for them?

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you've said and I also think that playing scared is a guaranteed way to play badly. 

Got ya.

Yeah a 1/2 game with no live straddle would be perfect. They could definitely do with something like this on deepstack weekends when there's no 50/1.

How about a pot limit holdem table? That'd be interesting.

[typhoon13]

Great advice coming in.

If you are lacking confidence and bankroll is getting smaller, don't play with people you know well, they will
know the pressure that your under and find it easier to push you off pots.

Remember to stay confident else your well and truly a gonna.

A move down to .50/1 is a good move at this juncture it will make you feel more relaxed and in control with your lesser bankroll.

Playing 1/2 with diminishing bankroll will put you out of your depth until full confidence is restored.

Always feel boss of what your doing.

This is what i have found to survive in my way of making a living over the last 30+ years not just playing poker but generally.

[Castor_Troy]

Maybe a £1/2 game without a live straddle, or with a sit-down limit of £300 (or whatever amount) might bridge the gap between the 50p/£1 tables and the £1/2 tables at DTD?

Yes. Definitely worth considering.

I mention it in my previous post but if you sit sit down with £300 at a 1/2 game which is regularly being straddled to 4 then you are short stacking. Actually you are mid stacking at 75bbs which is an awful stack to manage effectively.

There's no way to bridge the gap. Either play 1/2 or .50/1 full stacked or short stacked. Don't play 1/2/4 mid stacked imo.

Think you've misinterpreted my post Matt.  I was suggesting a different table be introduced at DTD that bridges the .50/1 and the 1/2 tables.  It could be a limited sit-down or not allow straddles.  Those who want to sit down with more or straddle can sit on the other tables.  I'm guessing there's a valid reason why DTD hasn't introduced them, or maybe there's just not the demand for them?

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you've said and I also think that playing scared is a guaranteed way to play badly. 

Got ya.

Yeah a 1/2 game with no live straddle would be perfect. They could definitely do with something like this on deepstack weekends when there's no 50/1.

How about a pot limit holdem table? That'd be interesting.

On the weekends that there is a deepstack we run and have run for some months a £1-£2  with £200 max buy in this is advertised EVERY £300 & 20-20 all you have to do is ask at the desk!

[GreekStein]

At 20 buy ins I'd take a 5 buy in shot at this game (if i was Tom - if i was me I'd take a 2 buy in shot at a bigger game lol) and if we really do continue to run terrabad then I'd move down to the much easier and more steady £0.5/1 game.

When your bankroll includes money to pay the bills and provide food for your family 'taking a shot' as you put it is ridiculous.

The thing is Tom can't afford to run bad for a short period. He's already taken the shot in this game and the bad run is what's got him where he is right now.

If he takes a 5 buy in shot and wins 10 buy ins what does he do next? Walk away from the 'shot' because he's up a bit? Or does he carry on hoping that it continues?

He need to get this sorted quickly and come up with a short strategy to ensure that he can continue to play poker as a long term career.

I really don't see where 'taking a shot' with 25% of what he's got left would come in to this.

I was using an example as I'm pretty sure Tom has more than 20 buy ins for the £1/2 game. If not it's not really a dangerous thing to do when he'll still have 30 buy ins at the limit below to make money - and I'mn very sure Tom would see very few few losing sessions at £0.50/1. With all the bill things you mentioned I wouldn't allow myself 5 buy ins at any smaller roll than £4k. Otherwise it's perfectly ok imo.

[kinboshi]

Maybe a £1/2 game without a live straddle, or with a sit-down limit of £300 (or whatever amount) might bridge the gap between the 50p/£1 tables and the £1/2 tables at DTD?

Yes. Definitely worth considering.

I mention it in my previous post but if you sit sit down with £300 at a 1/2 game which is regularly being straddled to 4 then you are short stacking. Actually you are mid stacking at 75bbs which is an awful stack to manage effectively.

There's no way to bridge the gap. Either play 1/2 or .50/1 full stacked or short stacked. Don't play 1/2/4 mid stacked imo.

Think you've misinterpreted my post Matt.  I was suggesting a different table be introduced at DTD that bridges the .50/1 and the 1/2 tables.  It could be a limited sit-down or not allow straddles.  Those who want to sit down with more or straddle can sit on the other tables.  I'm guessing there's a valid reason why DTD hasn't introduced them, or maybe there's just not the demand for them?

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you've said and I also think that playing scared is a guaranteed way to play badly. 

Got ya.

Yeah a 1/2 game with no live straddle would be perfect. They could definitely do with something like this on deepstack weekends when there's no 50/1.

How about a pot limit holdem table? That'd be interesting.

On the weekends that there is a deepstack we run and have run for some months a £1-£2  with £200 max buy in this is advertised EVERY £300 & 20-20 all you have to do is ask at the desk!

Not been there for the last couple of deepstacks, so hadn't heard about this one - but sounds good.

I'm assuming there aren't any plans for any £1/2 tables without straddles?

[Rod Paradise]

Not been there for the last couple of deepstacks, so hadn't heard about this one - but sounds good.

I'm assuming there aren't any plans for any £1/2 tables without straddles?

Possibly a dumb question - but what prevents under the gun betting 4 without looking when it's his turn in a no straddle game? Is it basically a no blind betting game?

[gatso]

Possibly a dumb question - but what prevents under the gun betting 4 without looking when it's his turn in a no straddle game? Is it basically a no blind betting game?

nothing but that's not a live straddle, just a blind bet. a straddle buys position

[Rod Paradise]

Possibly a dumb question - but what prevents under the gun betting 4 without looking when it's his turn in a no straddle game? Is it basically a no blind betting game?

nothing but that's not a live straddle, just a blind bet. a straddle buys position

But does it change what the effect of the bet is?  You've still bought the position.

[EvilPie]

Possibly a dumb question - but what prevents under the gun betting 4 without looking when it's his turn in a no straddle game? Is it basically a no blind betting game?

nothing but that's not a live straddle, just a blind bet. a straddle buys position

But does it change what the effect of the bet is?  You've still bought the position.

It gives the same options that the big blind would have in a non straddled pot.

So if someone straddles to 4 and there are 4 callers he has the option to check or raise.

As Gatso said if utg just bets 4 and there are 4 callers the betting stops and you see a flop.

[StuartHopkin]

You can actually straddle at .50/1 game though can't you Dan

I rarely straddle but I do like to be sat at a table with a few who do, especially those who show they like to protect their straddle.

Im sure people will argue with me but I dont think its possible to make a good profit at the .50/1 game. The games play horribly, normally made up with people gambling money they can't afford to lose.

The 1/2 is full of people wanting a gamble, they cant wait for the premiums and want to push for action every other hand.
I think I play a pretty tight game when I play, but no one really notices like they should. Everyones still happy to pay me off.

[typhoon13]

I would rather play with punters that cant afford to lose.

When you need to win its guaranteed you will lose.