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Author Topic: Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary  (Read 3639677 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #34785 on: March 10, 2023, 08:15:05 PM »

I applaud Lineker for having the courage of his convictions but I think the BBC are right to suspend him.

They can't allow people in his position to say what they like. What if he held the opposite opinion and said the UK borders should be closed to all migrants, would that be OK? Of course not.

 
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« Reply #34786 on: March 10, 2023, 08:44:00 PM »

I applaud Lineker for having the courage of his convictions but I think the BBC are right to suspend him.

They can't allow people in his position to say what they like. What if he held the opposite opinion and said the UK borders should be closed to all migrants, would that be OK? Of course not.

 

I disagree - as is my wont.

He didn't say it on MOTD - he tweeted it on his personal account.
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« Reply #34787 on: March 10, 2023, 10:50:19 PM »

It's a fair point, I'm not sure where I stand at the moment.
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« Reply #34788 on: March 10, 2023, 11:19:12 PM »

Hi Tom.

You’re wrong.

Bye mate x
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« Reply #34789 on: March 11, 2023, 09:22:46 AM »

Hi Tom.

You’re wrong.

Bye mate x

I'm beginning to think I might be. Wonders will never cease.

Don't misunderstand me, I agree with Linekers opinion, to the greater extent, I just don't think the BBC could say we'll let this one go because he's popular. If they change their policy, fine.

Why didn't people defend Glen Hoddle?

When all is said and done we do need a solution to the small boats issue. Whe can't have criminal gangs making money by systematically drowning people.

Also, someone needs to explain to me why people are leaving one safe country to risk their lives to get to another safe country.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have no issue with refugees coming here, if I could bring a truckload myself I would.
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« Reply #34790 on: March 11, 2023, 09:43:57 AM »

...
Also, someone needs to explain to me why people are leaving one safe country to risk their lives to get to another safe country.

...

Some of it is because they don't feel safe there

France has many times the number of asylum applications and takes in many more refugees than Britain -this coupled with the fact that many more refugees speak English compared to French might be why many feel the risk is worth getting away from the oftentimes hostile environment in France

About half of refugees also say they already have family in the UK, so there's a pull reason as well as a push reason

And that's just those that have a choice

If you pay a people smuggler on the edge of Europe to get you to safety, you might get told to get in a truck at one end and then told to get get out of the truck and onto a boat at the other end. It's the people smugglers who decide the routes

Apart from the half having family in the UK I don't have figures to show what proportion those apply to - but those seem to be the biggest factors
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« Reply #34791 on: March 11, 2023, 10:06:19 AM »

This issue is really not about boats etc, it's just about being allowed to express yourself.

I tend to a more absolutist free speech perspective so perfectly OK for Linker to say what he wants - even if it was anti refugee in my opinion - and can't believe the BBC have turned it into a cause celebre.

I do happen to think he's way off the mark in his comparators, using Godwinsonian arguments with mention of 1930s Germany, so rather schoolboyish nonsense, but no reason to sanction him at all.

I had to spend 2 years being told what was acceptable to say, do and think during the ludicrously extended Covid piffle so I know how Gary feels.

Boat crossings and people trafficking are a blight and should be stopped for the good of all - not sure the solutions we try to find are humane, creative or really designed to solve the issue and pretty clear the Tories will never solve the issue. Will be genuinely interested to see Labour's approach  after the next election.

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« Reply #34792 on: March 11, 2023, 10:30:02 AM »

...
Also, someone needs to explain to me why people are leaving one safe country to risk their lives to get to another safe country.

...

Some of it is because they don't feel safe there

France has many times the number of asylum applications and takes in many more refugees than Britain -this coupled with the fact that many more refugees speak English compared to French might be why many feel the risk is worth getting away from the oftentimes hostile environment in France

About half of refugees also say they already have family in the UK, so there's a pull reason as well as a push reason

And that's just those that have a choice

If you pay a people smuggler on the edge of Europe to get you to safety, you might get told to get in a truck at one end and then told to get get out of the truck and onto a boat at the other end. It's the people smugglers who decide the routes

Apart from the half having family in the UK I don't have figures to show what proportion those apply to - but those seem to be the biggest factors


Thanks for this Jon, it clears a lot up for me.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2023, 10:34:58 AM by RED-DOG » Logged

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« Reply #34793 on: March 11, 2023, 10:30:58 AM »

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[  ] This flyer has caused absolute outrage amongst the woke community.

Ever so difficult to form sensible thoughts about this unless you are actually part of the community affected. On the face of it is terrible and the same as any other racism - unacceptable.

In our town recently, all the pubs closed on the day of a Gypsy funeral. That's a pretty poor reflection on the community as a whole. I'm not sure it's crazy or particularly discriminatory for a resident to take the view that the status quo is preferable to a traveller site being located nearby.

It's also hard to equate this form of (I don't know what to call it - site I suppose) to any other distinct group of people. Can't imagine the creation of a specifically African site or Asian site outside of any town in the UK. So the nearest equivalent I can think of is the development of a religious site. These are regularly brought forward for approval and objections raised.

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« Reply #34794 on: March 11, 2023, 10:32:02 AM »

...
Also, someone needs to explain to me why people are leaving one safe country to risk their lives to get to another safe country.

...

Some of it is because they don't feel safe there

France has many times the number of asylum applications and takes in many more refugees than Britain -this coupled with the fact that many more refugees speak English compared to French might be why many feel the risk is worth getting away from the oftentimes hostile environment in France

About half of refugees also say they already have family in the UK, so there's a pull reason as well as a push reason

And that's just those that have a choice

If you pay a people smuggler on the edge of Europe to get you to safety, you might get told to get in a truck at one end and then told to get get out of the truck and onto a boat at the other end. It's the people smugglers who decide the routes

Apart from the half having family in the UK I don't have figures to show what proportion those apply to - but those seem to be the biggest factors


Thanks for this Glen, it clears a lot up for me.

Jon with the wise words here
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« Reply #34795 on: March 11, 2023, 10:35:38 AM »

...
Also, someone needs to explain to me why people are leaving one safe country to risk their lives to get to another safe country.

...

Some of it is because they don't feel safe there

France has many times the number of asylum applications and takes in many more refugees than Britain -this coupled with the fact that many more refugees speak English compared to French might be why many feel the risk is worth getting away from the oftentimes hostile environment in France

About half of refugees also say they already have family in the UK, so there's a pull reason as well as a push reason

And that's just those that have a choice

If you pay a people smuggler on the edge of Europe to get you to safety, you might get told to get in a truck at one end and then told to get get out of the truck and onto a boat at the other end. It's the people smugglers who decide the routes

Apart from the half having family in the UK I don't have figures to show what proportion those apply to - but those seem to be the biggest factors


Thanks for this Glen, it clears a lot up for me.

Jon with the wise words here


Edited.
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« Reply #34796 on: March 11, 2023, 10:43:12 AM »

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[  ] This flyer has caused absolute outrage amongst the woke community.

Ever so difficult to form sensible thoughts about this unless you are actually part of the community affected. On the face of it is terrible and the same as any other racism - unacceptable.

In our town recently, all the pubs closed on the day of a Gypsy funeral. That's a pretty poor reflection on the community as a whole. I'm not sure it's crazy or particularly discriminatory for a resident to take the view that the status quo is preferable to a traveller site being located nearby.

It's also hard to equate this form of (I don't know what to call it - site I suppose) to any other distinct group of people. Can't imagine the creation of a specifically African site or Asian site outside of any town in the UK. So the nearest equivalent I can think of is the development of a religious site. These are regularly brought forward for approval and objections raised.




Can you think of any other ethnic minority about whom this flyer would not create a public outcry? This one didn't even raise eyebrows.

 
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« Reply #34797 on: March 11, 2023, 10:53:38 AM »

I applaud Lineker for having the courage of his convictions but I think the BBC are right to suspend him.

They can't allow people in his position to say what they like. What if he held the opposite opinion and said the UK borders should be closed to all migrants, would that be OK? Of course not.

 

If he had expressed that opposite opinion on Twitter I don't think there's any chance he would have been suspended.
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« Reply #34798 on: March 11, 2023, 11:05:23 AM »

Any guesses at what will happen next?

Will Lineker and Co be presenting a football show from a different country every week on Netflix?
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« Reply #34799 on: March 11, 2023, 11:05:48 AM »

Totally agree with you on that Tom and it grates when people casually use terms like Pikeys - it offends my sensibility and general disposition to treat people as I find them as individuals

What i was trying to clumsily articulate is that I can't think of any ethnic minority where a special and distinct site would be built to accommodate them and when you build a site like this then it's not a total surprise that some object - the alarmist language is abhorrent.

Again clumsy maybe but some of the the underlying concern is founded in people's life experiences rather than pure prejudice and when we don't accept people have genuine reasons to feel like they do we end up with situations like, well, Brexit

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