Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

Cracking Tom as always, really enjoyable.

Tom are all your stories 100% true or do you add bits of detail for dramatic effect? I think they are great regardless just wanted to know if fact or fiction.

Also, have you ever been ratting with terriers and you would you consider it barbaric or reasonable?

cheers, Alex

I sometimes change names to protect people (or myself) and now and then I have to ad lib a bit of dialogue because although I know what was said, I can't remember the exact words (Although mostly I can, which is pretty amazing because I can't remember what Mrs Red said 5 minutes ago)

If it's a funny story, I might look back after it's written and realise that I have exaggerated the funny part a little, but I think that's because some things amuse me more than they would other people. I just see them funnier.

Basically though, if I present something as a true story, it's a true story.



Ratting with terriers? OMG yes. countless times. If you have too you will know that a good ratting terrier kills it's rat in heartbeat. Much much more humane than trapping or the slow agony of poison.

If you have ever been a rat hunter (Or even if you haven't) You should read "Tales of a rat hunting man" by D Brian Plummer. (He was the bloke who owned the ferret that bit Richard Whiteley's finger on telly) He lived in Sheffield (Although he later moved to Lichfield) and hunted the same places I did. He wrote loads of wonderful books, and he got me into breeding merle lurchers.

Other books by Brian include  "The Complete Jack Russell Terrier" "Adventures of an Artisan Hunter" "Rogues and Running Dogs" "The Cottage at the end of the World" "The Complete Lurcher" and the seminal  "Merle - The Start Of A Dynasty".

Sadly, Brian passed away in September 2003. RIP.


You can find an interesting article and a brief biography here.


http://www.wyremeadplummerterriers.com/THE%20PLUMMER%20TERRIER.htm

[gatso]

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

[pokefast]

Just found this diary and am up to page 37 now.

Can i just say this is fantastic stuff.

You really should write a book red.

I have read several Gypsy books mostly about the old bare knuckle fighters and they are truly excellent.

I remember when i was around 17 and a Gypsy community moved onto land near my grandparents house in the village of Bulkington ( was once the biggest village in england ) the uproar this caused was amazing and i was embarrased to be part of society that day.

They were barred from all pubs and shops etc in the village and hadn't even done anything. I remember me and my grandfather chatting to them over his back fence and they were among the nicest most honest of folk i have met to this day. We regularly used to pop over for a cup of tea and a game of cards until inevitably they were moved on.

This taught me a valueable lesson that no matter what society tells us about people its always better to judge for yourself.

A couple of the families kept in touch with my grandfather after they moved on until his death around 5 years ago.

Keep it up Red top stuff top man.

[phatomch]

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

why would you report them, it may not be everyones cup of tea but it was a different era, i only ever had to shoot one yrs ago when it got into one of my pens but its the way it goes

[phatomch]

oh by the way great read tom, they keep getting better and better, I think we should have a night at your place around a fire in the open with nothing but a fire a case of scotch and some stories

[RED-DOG]

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

I didn't report them.

This is a difficult concept to explain to the uninitiated, but I was given their address by someone (We'll call him Mr X) who trusted me, I mentioned this person's name when Nev answered the door. This is like saying "I am here because Mr X trusts me, and he will take responsibility for my actions"

Does that make sense?

I often send Gypsies who I know to be trustworthy to see people, perhaps to obtain advice, or to buy something. If they go there on my recommendation, that means that they can be trusted by that person just the same as I am trusted, because if they did anything wrong, it would be down to me, and I would have to make good.

This is all part of what is meant when the real old school people say "Old school"

[gatso]

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

why would you report them, it may not be everyones cup of tea but it was a different era, i only ever had to shoot one yrs ago when it got into one of my pens but its the way it goes

because it's illegal, needless and ridiculously cruel.

I have no idea why you had to shoot one (what's in your pens?) but there's a big difference between that and digging one out of it's home and forcing it to fight to the death

[phatomch]

i agree, but it was a different era, and i used to be a game farmer raising 110,000 asorted birds until i was 21

[AndrewT]

i agree, but it was a different era, and i used to be a game farmer raising 110,000 asorted birds until i was 21

It's been illegal for 170 years.

[gatso]

i agree, but it was a different era, and i used to be a game farmer raising 110,000 asorted birds until i was 21

lol, Tom didn't grow up in Victorian England.

your situation would be different as a farmer, I have no idea what happens when badgers and game birds mix but I assume it's not good.

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

I didn't report them.

This is a difficult concept to explain to the uninitiated, but I was given their address by someone (We'll call him Mr X) who trusted me, I mentioned this person's name when Nev answered the door. This is like saying "I am here because Mr X trusts me, and he will take responsibility for my actions"

Does that make sense?

I often send Gypsies who I know to be trustworthy to see people, perhaps to obtain advice, or to buy something. If they go there on my recommendation, that means that they can be trusted by that person just the same as I am trusted, because if they did anything wrong, it would be down to me, and I would have to make good.

This is all part of what is meant when the real old school people say "Old school"

tbh no, that doesn't make much sense to me. I know you live by different rules but you have to draw the line somewhere. even ignoring the badgers I would've thought the treatment of the dog they wanted to kill would be enough for you.

how did you feel about walking away knowing they'd continue to do the same to others?

you have a very different moral/ethical code to me which while probably much more structured than mine I find very difficult to understand

[RED-DOG]

i agree, but it was a different era, and i used to be a game farmer raising 110,000 asorted birds until i was 21

lol, Tom didn't grow up in Victorian England.

your situation would be different as a farmer, I have no idea what happens when badgers and game birds mix but I assume it's not good.

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

I didn't report them.

This is a difficult concept to explain to the uninitiated, but I was given their address by someone (We'll call him Mr X) who trusted me, I mentioned this person's name when Nev answered the door. This is like saying "I am here because Mr X trusts me, and he will take responsibility for my actions"

Does that make sense?

I often send Gypsies who I know to be trustworthy to see people, perhaps to obtain advice, or to buy something. If they go there on my recommendation, that means that they can be trusted by that person just the same as I am trusted, because if they did anything wrong, it would be down to me, and I would have to make good.

This is all part of what is meant when the real old school people say "Old school"

tbh no, that doesn't make much sense to me. I know you live by different rules but you have to draw the line somewhere. even ignoring the badgers I would've thought the treatment of the dog they wanted to kill would be enough for you.

how did you feel about walking away knowing they'd continue to do the same to others?

you have a very different moral/ethical code to me which while probably much more structured than mine I find very difficult to understand

I don't really want to get into this, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. (No pun intended) All I said was "I didn't report them"

I have mixed with a lot of different people, both good and bad. If I'm going to tell a story, I have to tell it as it is. I can't sanitize it. Sometimes the truth is not pretty

[Eck]

Brilliant story Tom, thank you.

Amazing, so many emotions in such a short piece.

[phatomch]

when i said a different era I meant maybe more of a different lifestyle. But thats good more of us should live like that, in no way am I saying that badger baiting is right or the way that dog was treated, but we have become a nation that is ruled by the heart and that of retards, the sense of a mans word is his honour is dying out and that is a shame, thats why tom did'nt report it.

[Rod Paradise]

i agree, but it was a different era, and i used to be a game farmer raising 110,000 asorted birds until i was 21

lol, Tom didn't grow up in Victorian England.

your situation would be different as a farmer, I have no idea what happens when badgers and game birds mix but I assume it's not good.

Tom, did you ever report the badger baiting guys? did they ever get caught?

I didn't report them.

This is a difficult concept to explain to the uninitiated, but I was given their address by someone (We'll call him Mr X) who trusted me, I mentioned this person's name when Nev answered the door. This is like saying "I am here because Mr X trusts me, and he will take responsibility for my actions"

Does that make sense?

I often send Gypsies who I know to be trustworthy to see people, perhaps to obtain advice, or to buy something. If they go there on my recommendation, that means that they can be trusted by that person just the same as I am trusted, because if they did anything wrong, it would be down to me, and I would have to make good.

This is all part of what is meant when the real old school people say "Old school"

tbh no, that doesn't make much sense to me. I know you live by different rules but you have to draw the line somewhere. even ignoring the badgers I would've thought the treatment of the dog they wanted to kill would be enough for you.

how did you feel about walking away knowing they'd continue to do the same to others?

you have a very different moral/ethical code to me which while probably much more structured than mine I find very difficult to understand

Gatso, I get where Red's coming from. I'll try to explain it my way hoping you'll get it (Red - pull me up if I get your way wrong - everyone's sense of honour/the law is different).

In a small community the law comes about 95th in the things you consider.

If someone had given me the introduction Red had & I'd seen the same I'd have NOT gone to the police, despite how abhorent pointless blood sports are to me. If I had I'd have betrayed the guy who said "Rod's OK, trust him" - meaning "Rod's OK, trust me". You don't fuck a mate over that way.

What Red's not saying & probably won't elaborate on is what he said to the guy that gave him the introduction. And how his acceptance of the badger baiters weighed in as far as Red's opinion of him went.

To illustrate it I'll tell a different story... Poaching's a pretty common thing in my area (by that I mean where my folk's live) - my Dad taught me to guddle (tickle) trout & salmon once we moved back to Scotland. We all do it, it's not a crime to us & to hell with the rich landowners and the police that work for them. You'd never grass another poacher. Then you find another poacher has poisoned a pool - there's a substance you chuck in the water that drives out the oxygen  - all the fish suffocate & float up - they're still edible though - it kills everything though &  will lead to less fish in the future. You don't tell the police, but you let it be known he's doing it. People start avoiding him (or telling him what they think), if he goes to do it again & others catch him  he's likely to end up not to be walking too well. He realises he's blotted his record (which is forever) - he either stops, or he's ostracised. If he keeps it up the gamekeeper will eventually hear - he's threatening the gamey's job and causing more attention to the poaching - he will be caught eventually - and no one will have grassed, but somehow he's caught.

[RED-DOG]

Much better than I could ever have explained it Rod. Thank you.