One that's bothering me from last night

[MANTIS01]

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

[Royal Flush]

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

I think assuming when people ask for stack sizes is a sign of weakness is a terrible idea.

[skolsuper]

James you say all that but all i do here is think does than guy have small pairs, can he have AJ? If so snappington.

Yeah it really depends on villain's range which is pretty impossible to guess at on a forum. I actually agree with Alex that the 1st one is a shove pretty much unless the villain is ridic tight and unaware, but the 2nd one I'd have to think back to what the villain has done before, said about other hands ("crazy, all in with jacks. bingo poker." etc) and how comfortable he looks at the time. Just based on the info in the OP I think the villain would perceive the table as "aggressive" and would expect a limp-reraise to work (i.e. to get the chips in, not as a bluff) a lot of the time and would therefore be more inclined to play his big hands that way and less inclined to limp 66, although I've seen enough poker on TV to know that most fish think there is never a bad time to limp with 66. I'm not saying it's an obv fold or anything, and obv in the heat of the moment I'd probably snap this, but there's a good argument for folding imo.

As regards to tournament survival, I mostly ignore it except for around the bubble and early on the final table. A lot of people make an argument for waiting for better spots rather than go out on a coinflip early, but mostly in those sorts of situations a bad fold is much more costly than the potential lost value from "better spots" down the line.

[MANTIS01]

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

I think assuming when people ask for stack sizes is a sign of weakness is a terrible idea.

Well I think if you sit down at a new table and put a decent % of your stack in raising the pot with zero info on anybody then whatever your thought process is about your oppos it's not going to be ideal. Using the experience you have from playing these events to make generalisations is not a terrible idea. It's not ideal, but it's not terrible. Blatch makes generalisations about the standards in these events from his own experience. You say you call this hand if you think your oppo has small pairs or A-J. How would you come to that conclusion first hand at a new table if you don't generalise from previous experience? Isn't assuming villain has such a range a terrible idea as well?

[Blatch]

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

Everyone else in the poker world does

[the rage]

I have to admit i did find the verbals a bit worrying. But, without knowledge of the villian, i would still go with folding. Also, I would rather be shoving than calling, with my tournament on the line.
ps-Thanks for the additional reply Skol-and to the other folks that replied. And thanks again for posting it up Claw.
 Happy New Year and Good Luck to you all-Rage.

[Claw75]

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.

[AlexMartin]

6 replies and nobody has suggested a range or calculated our pot odds. Guess everyone's forgotten how to analyse hands..

Tight range: TT+ AK. AQo vs this range: 30.6%

Loose range (according to AlexMartin, shortlisted for blonde live player of the year with his 1 cashes in 2009): 55+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,ATo+,KQo. AQo vs this range: 50.6%

Pot Odds: 9.5k to call into (1100 + 2200 + 11700) = 15000 so the pot is laying 1.58:1, we need 38.8% to call.

So, as always, it depends on how tight the villain is. TBH I think they're actually going to be pretty tight here, from their point of view you're probably opening tighter and might call looser than you normally would due to the previous hand. It certainly doesn't look like a good spot for him to bluff. Fold for me I reckon.

[MANTIS01]

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.

Yeah fair enough babe. But the point is none of the other players know that about you...so they might well make terrible generalisations like myself. Openly declaring you are playing this hand for your stack could lead people to wonder how genuine you are about that. So it doesn't matter so much if you do say it whether you have Aces or rags. What matters is whether your intention is to call a shove after you've said it. If your intention is to snap with this A-Q (as it would be with A-A) then sweet, your speech play is gonna illicit the respone you want. I do appreciate we're working on generalisations here but it's a marginal spot and we don't have anything solid to rely on.

[Claw75]

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.

Yeah fair enough babe. But the point is none of the other players know that about you...so they might well make terrible generalisations like myself. Openly declaring you are playing this hand for your stack could lead people to wonder how genuine you are about that. So it doesn't matter so much if you do say it whether you have Aces or rags. What matters is whether your intention is to call a shove after you've said it. If your intention is to snap with this A-Q (as it would be with A-A) then sweet, your speech play is gonna illicit the respone you want. I do appreciate we're working on generalisations here but it's a marginal spot and we don't have anything solid to rely on.

It was my intention, and it's what happened. The reason for posting the hand on here though is I'm pretty sure it was down to stubbornness over having to lay down the last hand rather than being sure that my AQ is ahead of or (at best) racing with anyone else's 3-bet shove range. I convinced myself afterwards that a fold would have been preferable, leaving me with enough chips to make a few moves in the right spots and get back into the game, and I'm pretty much still of the same mind, but maybe that's results orientated. Doesn't seem to be a clear consensus here either, so I'm still not sure.

[KingPoker]

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.

[Claw75]

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.

hello. didn't you used to play poker?

[KingPoker]

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.

hello. didn't you used to play poker?

I still dabble

[skolsuper]

[X] cymru am byth
[ ] cymru am shyt

[KingPoker]

[X] cymru am byth
[ ] cymru am shyt