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Author Topic: One that's bothering me from last night  (Read 4675 times)
Royal Flush
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 05:43:45 PM »

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

I think assuming when people ask for stack sizes is a sign of weakness is a terrible idea.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2009, 06:06:42 PM »

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

I think assuming when people ask for stack sizes is a sign of weakness is a terrible idea.

Well I think if you sit down at a new table and put a decent % of your stack in raising the pot with zero info on anybody then whatever your thought process is about your oppos it's not going to be ideal. Using the experience you have from playing these events to make generalisations is not a terrible idea. It's not ideal, but it's not terrible. Blatch makes generalisations about the standards in these events from his own experience. You say you call this hand if you think your oppo has small pairs or A-J. How would you come to that conclusion first hand at a new table if you don't generalise from previous experience? Isn't assuming villain has such a range a terrible idea as well?
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2009, 06:10:19 PM »

I think saying you're not passing is a mistake. It's like when you hear a player ask how much an opener has behind before deciding what to do. They pretty much tell the raiser they don't have premium. You wouldn't intimate to your oppo you might be playing for stacks if you had A-A, you'd just shut up and make your play. And you wouldn't tell someone you aint passing if you had A-A, you'd just remain silent, look worried, and hope they push. Volunteering that bonus info exposes the type of hand you've got. That and the deja-vu factor widens villain's pushing range imo. I call.

Pretty sure i always ask the question if stacks are getting to 30bb or less.

Do you consider your level of thinking and approach to poker is on the same level as random live players?

Everyone else in the poker world does Smiley
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the rage
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2009, 06:35:27 PM »

I have to admit i did find the verbals a bit worrying. But, without knowledge of the villian, i would still go with folding. Also, I would rather be shoving than calling, with my tournament on the line.
ps-Thanks for the additional reply Skol-and to the other folks that replied. And thanks again for posting it up Claw.
 Happy New Year and Good Luck to you all-Rage. Smiley
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 06:49:21 PM by the rage » Logged
Claw75
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2009, 06:40:45 PM »

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2009, 06:42:16 PM »

6 replies and nobody has suggested a range or calculated our pot odds. Guess everyone's forgotten how to analyse hands..

Tight range: TT+ AK. AQo vs this range: 30.6%

Loose range (according to AlexMartin, shortlisted for blonde live player of the year with his 1 cashes in 2009): 55+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,ATo+,KQo. AQo vs this range: 50.6%

Pot Odds: 9.5k to call into (1100 + 2200 + 11700) = 15000 so the pot is laying 1.58:1, we need 38.8% to call.

So, as always, it depends on how tight the villain is. TBH I think they're actually going to be pretty tight here, from their point of view you're probably opening tighter and might call looser than you normally would due to the previous hand. It certainly doesn't look like a good spot for him to bluff. Fold for me I reckon.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 07:29:29 PM by AlexMartin » Logged
MANTIS01
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2009, 07:26:51 PM »

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.

Yeah fair enough babe. But the point is none of the other players know that about you...so they might well make terrible generalisations like myself. Openly declaring you are playing this hand for your stack could lead people to wonder how genuine you are about that. So it doesn't matter so much if you do say it whether you have Aces or rags. What matters is whether your intention is to call a shove after you've said it. If your intention is to snap with this A-Q (as it would be with A-A) then sweet, your speech play is gonna illicit the respone you want. I do appreciate we're working on generalisations here but it's a marginal spot and we don't have anything solid to rely on.
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2009, 07:34:48 PM »

thanks for the replies folks.

Blatch - didn't recognise either of the players (or indeed most of the other players at the table - a lot of non regs in as it was Boxing Day), so I have zero info on them. Can only presume that as a woman unknown to them their default will be to assume I'm tight/weak, which has probs been compounded by my fold to the 3 bet in the previous hand.  

Actually Mantis, I think I DO say exactly the same thing whatever I'm holding in this situation, whether it's Aces or rags.

Yeah fair enough babe. But the point is none of the other players know that about you...so they might well make terrible generalisations like myself. Openly declaring you are playing this hand for your stack could lead people to wonder how genuine you are about that. So it doesn't matter so much if you do say it whether you have Aces or rags. What matters is whether your intention is to call a shove after you've said it. If your intention is to snap with this A-Q (as it would be with A-A) then sweet, your speech play is gonna illicit the respone you want. I do appreciate we're working on generalisations here but it's a marginal spot and we don't have anything solid to rely on.

It was my intention, and it's what happened. The reason for posting the hand on here though is I'm pretty sure it was down to stubbornness over having to lay down the last hand rather than being sure that my AQ is ahead of or (at best) racing with anyone else's 3-bet shove range. I convinced myself afterwards that a fold would have been preferable, leaving me with enough chips to make a few moves in the right spots and get back into the game, and I'm pretty much still of the same mind, but maybe that's results orientated. Doesn't seem to be a clear consensus here either, so I'm still not sure.
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2009, 10:19:37 PM »

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2009, 11:53:14 PM »

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.


hello. didn't you used to play poker? Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 12:03:52 AM »

I'd have folded. Better to fold and make a move within the next 2 or 3 rounds of the table with them having to work out what you have rather than call with zero info on a new table with an easily passable hand.


hello. didn't you used to play poker? Smiley

I still dabble Wink
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »

[X] cymru am byth
[ ] cymru am shyt

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