Tips for Tikay

[Peter-27]

What was winning margin and safety car result?  Did roy the boy know?

25 seconds, no safety car.

Both Mercs have been called to the stewards for low tyre pressures.

Peter, any idea on what might have happened and what could happen if found to be true?

Hamilton's rear left tyre started the race 0.3 PSI below the limit imposed by Pirelli, Rosberg's rear left was 1.1 PSI below the target.

This is a clear technical infringement, I would expect both Mercedes to be disqualified here. That's the rumour in the paddock too.

How does one tyre drop below pressure and not the others?  Would this be down to human error or teams trying to fudge the numbers a touch?

It may have dropped below the target pressure, or it may have always been below pressure. Impossible to say at this stage. Almost certainly human error. I can't imagine a team would purposefully do something like this now-a-days, especially when they're dominating the championship like this.

Bit convenient that it's on the left rear on a right handed track? Or is that the only tyre that would be tested?

They used to say the F in FIA stands for Ferrari. Could hardly argue with a double DQ here, but I can see the stewards saying it didn't affect the outcome, which is what Joe Public really cares about. Obviously, Nico is a different story.

All four tyres on both Mercedes and both Ferrari's were tested.

Yeah, fans who say that do so because they don't really understand the complexities of the sport to be honest.

I think there was a virtual safety car for a very brief period after Nico's engine blew, does that not count in the context of the bet?

I don't think there was? If I am mistaken, then I'm not sure, the virtual safety car is a little contentious when it comes to bets really.

I personally didn't have a safety car bet this weekend.

[TightEnd]

Hi Peter, i agree rules are rules. Why dont they just tell them when they check them they are too low?

It's up to the teams to ensure they're following the regulations, the FIA are there to police it. In the interests of fairness, penalties are given to anyone who breeches.

Surely one of the big reasons for this is safety, especially after what happened in Spa and the drivers reactions. 

So if they(FiA) knew the pressures were down before the start/during the first few laps.  Should both cars have been shown a black & orange flag?

I believe (although am uncertain) that Pirelli took the measurements, the FIA will (probably) have only found out after the race when Pirelli submitted their technical report.

the FIA found out dring the race and told Merc, who told Lewis to speed up in anticipation of a time penalty

if the FIA find out during the race, and its a safety/technical infringement...then black flag him...but no

[Tal]

What was winning margin and safety car result?  Did roy the boy know?

25 seconds, no safety car.

Both Mercs have been called to the stewards for low tyre pressures.

Peter, any idea on what might have happened and what could happen if found to be true?

Hamilton's rear left tyre started the race 0.3 PSI below the limit imposed by Pirelli, Rosberg's rear left was 1.1 PSI below the target.

This is a clear technical infringement, I would expect both Mercedes to be disqualified here. That's the rumour in the paddock too.

How does one tyre drop below pressure and not the others?  Would this be down to human error or teams trying to fudge the numbers a touch?

It may have dropped below the target pressure, or it may have always been below pressure. Impossible to say at this stage. Almost certainly human error. I can't imagine a team would purposefully do something like this now-a-days, especially when they're dominating the championship like this.

Bit convenient that it's on the left rear on a right handed track? Or is that the only tyre that would be tested?

They used to say the F in FIA stands for Ferrari. Could hardly argue with a double DQ here, but I can see the stewards saying it didn't affect the outcome, which is what Joe Public really cares about. Obviously, Nico is a different story.

All four tyres on both Mercedes and both Ferrari's were tested.

Yeah, fans who say that do so because they don't really understand the complexities of the sport to be honest.

I disagree.

Why have race-related rules if they ignore what happens in the race? If the tyre was legal, Lewis wins by 15 seconds. You could give him a penalty, fine the team, make him drive for McLaren next race, whatever you want. But changing the outcome of the race seems incongruous with the reason the rule is there: to protect the integrity of the result (in other words, everyone else has their pressure at 1.5, so you should too).

That's the other argument anyway.

[TightEnd]

CBB bet please.

Ladbrokes are best price about Jimmy Hill @ 7-2 and are the only firm offering a quarter the odds three places.

He's the solid one in a field of non-winners. Be very surprised to see him out of the three as things stand, and good chance of binking the crown.

Rec £50 each-ways.

max £2.70 e/w

£50 e/w on cbb? you'll be alright. no bookie will come close to laying us that

[Chompy]

CBB bet please.

Ladbrokes are best price about Jimmy Hill @ 7-2 and are the only firm offering a quarter the odds three places.

He's the solid one in a field of non-winners. Be very surprised to see him out of the three as things stand, and good chance of binking the crown.

Rec £50 each-ways.

max £2.70 e/w

£50 e/w on cbb? you'll be alright. no bookie will come close to laying us that

I just rang and got £25EW, which you can have. Apparently it can be done after all.

[bunnydas8888]

Hi Peter, i agree rules are rules. Why dont they just tell them when they check them they are too low?

It's up to the teams to ensure they're following the regulations, the FIA are there to police it. In the interests of fairness, penalties are given to anyone who breeches.

Surely one of the big reasons for this is safety, especially after what happened in Spa and the drivers reactions. 

So if they(FiA) knew the pressures were down before the start/during the first few laps.  Should both cars have been shown a black & orange flag?

I believe (although am uncertain) that Pirelli took the measurements, the FIA will (probably) have only found out after the race when Pirelli submitted their technical report.

the FIA found out dring the race and told Merc, who told Lewis to speed up in anticipation of a time penalty

if the FIA find out during the race, and its a safety/technical infringement...then black flag him...but no

Saying that, when they found out, both cars would of been on different tyres, so I suppose perhaps at the time wouldn't of been a safety concern assuming that those tyres were within the limits when put on during the pit stop

[Peter-27]

Hi Peter, i agree rules are rules. Why dont they just tell them when they check them they are too low?

It's up to the teams to ensure they're following the regulations, the FIA are there to police it. In the interests of fairness, penalties are given to anyone who breeches.

Surely one of the big reasons for this is safety, especially after what happened in Spa and the drivers reactions. 

So if they(FiA) knew the pressures were down before the start/during the first few laps.  Should both cars have been shown a black & orange flag?

I believe (although am uncertain) that Pirelli took the measurements, the FIA will (probably) have only found out after the race when Pirelli submitted their technical report.

the FIA found out dring the race and told Merc, who told Lewis to speed up in anticipation of a time penalty

if the FIA find out during the race, and its a safety/technical infringement...then black flag him...but no

It could have been Pirelli who told Mercedes. IF the FIA did find out during the race, then perhaps they deemed 0.3 & 1.1 PSI to not be a safety concern.

What was winning margin and safety car result?  Did roy the boy know?

 
25 seconds, no safety car.

Both Mercs have been called to the stewards for low tyre pressures.

Peter, any idea on what might have happened and what could happen if found to be true?

Hamilton's rear left tyre started the race 0.3 PSI below the limit imposed by Pirelli, Rosberg's rear left was 1.1 PSI below the target.

This is a clear technical infringement, I would expect both Mercedes to be disqualified here. That's the rumour in the paddock too.

How does one tyre drop below pressure and not the others?  Would this be down to human error or teams trying to fudge the numbers a touch?

It may have dropped below the target pressure, or it may have always been below pressure. Impossible to say at this stage. Almost certainly human error. I can't imagine a team would purposefully do something like this now-a-days, especially when they're dominating the championship like this.

Bit convenient that it's on the left rear on a right handed track? Or is that the only tyre that would be tested?

They used to say the F in FIA stands for Ferrari. Could hardly argue with a double DQ here, but I can see the stewards saying it didn't affect the outcome, which is what Joe Public really cares about. Obviously, Nico is a different story.

All four tyres on both Mercedes and both Ferrari's were tested.

Yeah, fans who say that do so because they don't really understand the complexities of the sport to be honest.

I disagree.

Why have race-related rules if they ignore what happens in the race? If the tyre was legal, Lewis wins by 15 seconds. You could give him a penalty, fine the team, make him drive for McLaren next race, whatever you want. But changing the outcome of the race seems incongruous with the reason the rule is there: to protect the integrity of the result (in other words, everyone else has their pressure at 1.5, so you should too).

That's the other argument anyway.

There are two sets of rules in F1, technical regulations and sporting regulations.

A technical infringement is always much more serious as it's quite simply unfair whereas a sporting infringement could just be a driver error for instance. While sporting infringements can be applied to the next race (grid drops etc.), technical infringements are always applied (where possible) at the same event - because that's where the issue happened. Why would they impose a penalty at the next race if they could avoid it? This would mean two races would be effected rather than one.

As an extreme example, Manor could run 100 kg lighter at Monza, win the race, and take the penalty in Singapore. Completely unfair.

[TightEnd]

CBB bet please.

Ladbrokes are best price about Jimmy Hill @ 7-2 and are the only firm offering a quarter the odds three places.

He's the solid one in a field of non-winners. Be very surprised to see him out of the three as things stand, and good chance of binking the crown.

Rec £50 each-ways.

max £2.70 e/w

£50 e/w on cbb? you'll be alright. no bookie will come close to laying us that

I just rang and got £25EW, which you can have. Apparently it can be done after all.

sure it can, but i can't ring up and be tikay

thank you

[atdc21]

When is the tyre pressure taken, when the cars are on the grid?

[Tal]

Yes, the obvious application would be a time penalty for the driver or a point penalty for the team. Time penalty only makes any difference if it affects the affects the race classification...which brings me back to the point that it's relevant.

I'm not a massive Mercedes fan and it would clearly liven up this series of dead rubbers, but the penalty should relate to the consequences,  rather than just the crime.  

[bunnydas8888]

When is the tyre pressure taken, when the cars are on the grid?

Yea was when cars were on the grid.

[Chompy]

CBB bet please.

Ladbrokes are best price about Jimmy Hill @ 7-2 and are the only firm offering a quarter the odds three places.

He's the solid one in a field of non-winners. Be very surprised to see him out of the three as things stand, and good chance of binking the crown.

Rec £50 each-ways.

max £2.70 e/w

£50 e/w on cbb? you'll be alright. no bookie will come close to laying us that

I just rang and got £25EW, which you can have. Apparently it can be done after all.

sure it can, but i can't ring up and be tikay

thank you

They wouldn't have a clue if it was the genuine article or not I'd have thought.

Random northern bird at Tote headquarters, or random cockerney sparrah at Coral headquarters wouldn't know their Tikays from their Trevor Harris's.

Worth doing imo, normally get a deal more on over the phone than online.

[Peter-27]

Yes, the obvious application would be a time penalty for the driver or a point penalty for the team. Time penalty only makes any difference if it affects the affects the race classification...which brings me back to the point that it's relevant.

I'm not a massive Mercedes fan and it would clearly liven up this series of dead rubbers, but the penalty should relate to the consequences,  rather than just the crime.  

The problem is that it's pretty much impossible to quantify the benefits of the infringement given the number of external factors involved. However, the fact that there is an infringement is the key here, the consequences are irrelevant really when it comes to technical regulations. You either meet them or you don't. That has always been the precedent in F1.

[Tal]

Yes, the obvious application would be a time penalty for the driver or a point penalty for the team. Time penalty only makes any difference if it affects the affects the race classification...which brings me back to the point that it's relevant.

I'm not a massive Mercedes fan and it would clearly liven up this series of dead rubbers, but the penalty should relate to the consequences,  rather than just the crime.  

The problem is that it's pretty much impossible to quantify the benefits of the infringement given the number of external factors involved. However, the fact that there is an infringement is the key here, the consequences are irrelevant really when it comes to technical regulations. You either meet them or you don't. That has always been the precedent in F1.

Having done the same in GP2, it's a clear precedent for the stewards to follow.  

From a wider perspective though, I do believe there's a case to be made for impact on the race to be considered.

Mercedes will be on the blower to Tom Brady's lawyer.

[Peter-27]

Yes, the obvious application would be a time penalty for the driver or a point penalty for the team. Time penalty only makes any difference if it affects the affects the race classification...which brings me back to the point that it's relevant.

I'm not a massive Mercedes fan and it would clearly liven up this series of dead rubbers, but the penalty should relate to the consequences,  rather than just the crime.  

The problem is that it's pretty much impossible to quantify the benefits of the infringement given the number of external factors involved. However, the fact that there is an infringement is the key here, the consequences are irrelevant really when it comes to technical regulations. You either meet them or you don't. That has always been the precedent in F1.

Having done the same in GP2, it's a clear precedent for the stewards to follow.  

From a wider perspective though, I do believe there's a case to be made for impact on the race to be considered.

Mercedes will be on the blower to Tom Brady's lawyer.

Exactly, unless the circumstances are different.

Consequences don't matter when it comes to technical regulations, in normal circumstances anyway. That's just the way it has always been. Makes sense really as it's usually impossible to quantify benefits from technical infringements.