Independence Referendum

[maccol]

I wouldn't say it's as one sided as that. Looks like the Yessers may get about 40% or so.

I'm a definite No for several reasons.

I don't actually care what flag I'm deemed to be under. I would be far more in favour of some kind of Federal structure for the UK, giving all the regions more control over their own destiny. As a Highlander, being fully governed from Edinburgh would be just as bad as Westminster - as has been proved by a number of SNP policies in recent years.

The 3 areas I have expertise in - the law, making and selling beer, and as an exporter, the SNP's proposals are either daft, dangerous or incompetent. For the areas I lack expertise in I don't really have a strong opinion.

There are many problems with our country but there is absolutely zero evidence that Independence is the cure. If you start off, as most Nationalists do, with the premise that "Independence is the answer" then you are bound to reach a flawed conclusion. Independence is not some kind of magical panacea which will cure all known ills - and don't even get me started on the nonsense spouted on wingsoverscotland, bellacaledonia etc. etc.

Also, the behaviour of the Yes campaign has been disgraceful. Only dealing with stuff I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears :- Telling Polish citizens that they have to vote Yes or they will get sent "back home", If we lose this vote "I'll take it to the next level" (meaning violent protest), referring to No voters as "cowards" and we should vote Yes because of the Clearances. That's just stuff I've encountered in the last week. Oh, and Scottish people have a naturally better sense of morality than the rest of the UK.  Is this the positive vision for a Brave New Scotland?

Yes it's easy to persuade folk who feel they have nothing to lose to vote Yes, those of us who are responsible for employing others have to take a more considered approach. I think it's a huge gamble and the potential reward is tiny (even with a Yes I don't think that much would change)  and the potential risk is too large. As a gambler it's a fairly straightforward decision.

Good post sir.

[arbboy]

I wouldn't say it's as one sided as that. Looks like the Yessers may get about 40% or so.

I'm a definite No for several reasons.

I don't actually care what flag I'm deemed to be under. I would be far more in favour of some kind of Federal structure for the UK, giving all the regions more control over their own destiny. As a Highlander, being fully governed from Edinburgh would be just as bad as Westminster - as has been proved by a number of SNP policies in recent years.

The 3 areas I have expertise in - the law, making and selling beer, and as an exporter, the SNP's proposals are either daft, dangerous or incompetent. For the areas I lack expertise in I don't really have a strong opinion.

There are many problems with our country but there is absolutely zero evidence that Independence is the cure. If you start off, as most Nationalists do, with the premise that "Independence is the answer" then you are bound to reach a flawed conclusion. Independence is not some kind of magical panacea which will cure all known ills - and don't even get me started on the nonsense spouted on wingsoverscotland, bellacaledonia etc. etc.

Also, the behaviour of the Yes campaign has been disgraceful. Only dealing with stuff I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears :- Telling Polish citizens that they have to vote Yes or they will get sent "back home", If we lose this vote "I'll take it to the next level" (meaning violent protest), referring to No voters as "cowards" and we should vote Yes because of the Clearances. That's just stuff I've encountered in the last week. Oh, and Scottish people have a naturally better sense of morality than the rest of the UK.  Is this the positive vision for a Brave New Scotland?

Yes it's easy to persuade folk who feel they have nothing to lose to vote Yes, those of us who are responsible for employing others have to take a more considered approach. I think it's a huge gamble and the potential reward is tiny (even with a Yes I don't think that much would change)  and the potential risk is too large. As a gambler it's a fairly straightforward decision.

TY for posting that very logical and balanced reply.

[Kmac84]

Hardly balanced. 

Its not only Nationalists that aspire for independence.

[arbboy]

Hardly balanced. 

Its not only Nationalists that aspire for independence.

My whole family is Scottish and they are all voting No fwiw.  I am just interested in other people's views as i plan to bet heavily on this event.

[Kmac84]

Hardly balanced. 

Its not only Nationalists that aspire for independence.

My whole family is Scottish and they are all voting No fwiw.  I am just interested in other people's views as i plan to bet heavily on this event.

All my family living in Scotland are voting yes.  That proves nothing.  The bet you posted on TfT other day of overs is a sure fire winner.  I would also be on over in the turnout, that is putting my own opinions of the result to the side.

#Invalid YouTube Link#

[arbboy]

Hardly balanced. 

Its not only Nationalists that aspire for independence.

My whole family is Scottish and they are all voting No fwiw.  I am just interested in other people's views as i plan to bet heavily on this event.

All my family living in Scotland are voting yes.  That proves nothing.  The bet you posted on TfT other day of overs is a sure fire winner.  I would also be on over in the turnout, that is putting my own opinions of the result to the side.

#Invalid YouTube Link#

I am not saying it proves anything.  I am interested in a wide range of views.

[Kmac84]

Messed that link up.  

[Kmac84]

Not my favoured bedtime reading but going to have a gander at this.  I never believe anything in the Daily Mail as a default position but the figures are interesting especially if the poll was taken of Daily Mail readers who I would expect to be more on the No side. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737155/Darling-s-debate-disaster-sees-Scots-Yes-vote-soaring-No-lead-cut-level-seen-TV-clash.html

[arbboy]

Not my favoured bedtime reading but going to have a gander at this.  I never believe anything in the Daily Mail as a default position but the figures are interesting especially if the poll was taken of Daily Mail readers who I would expect to be more on the No side. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737155/Darling-s-debate-disaster-sees-Scots-Yes-vote-soaring-No-lead-cut-level-seen-TV-clash.html

Women still back the no campaign (they are far more risk averse) compared to men.  Looks like the marginal males (more risk loving generally) are going to be the key to result.

[arbboy]

ironside made an interesting point about ukip today and how they could influence the scottish vote and make the marginal voters more likely to get out and vote because of the hate for ukip in Scotland.  I assume this as well as the polls today have caused the gamble on Yes today.

[Kmac84]

Not my favoured bedtime reading but going to have a gander at this.  I never believe anything in the Daily Mail as a default position but the figures are interesting especially if the poll was taken of Daily Mail readers who I would expect to be more on the No side. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737155/Darling-s-debate-disaster-sees-Scots-Yes-vote-soaring-No-lead-cut-level-seen-TV-clash.html

Women still back the no campaign (they are far more risk averse) compared to men.  Looks like the marginal males (more risk loving generally) are going to be the key to result.

I think after that disaster of an broadcast by BT many woman may change their mind as well.  Going by what I am seeing on Twitter and Facebook.  

But they are a key demographic.  Another poll suggests that Glasgow is 51% yes and no at 49%.  Momentum is only going one way though.  

Two big moves for the Yes Campaign today included the Convener of Orkney Islands Council and the Chairman of the Orkney NHS trust coming out in support for independence today.  I have also heard there has been much positive moves in Shetland Islands as well.  

David Cameron caused a bit of angst for the BT campaig tonight by telling the CBI dinner he intends to still hold the in/out referendum on the EU a number of guests not happy by this.  

[Kmac84]

ironside made an interesting point about ukip today and how they could influence the scottish vote and make the marginal voters more likely to get out and vote because of the hate for ukip in Scotland.  I assume this as well as the polls today have caused the gamble on Yes today.

That may have an impact, I think for those who may be suayed by such arguements they still believe the Labour lies that they can win the next general election and make everything rosie. 

IMO what will win this for YES is the grassroots work.  Chapping doors, canvassing, phone calls, public meetings. 

I listened to this earlier, I missed a bit when the Mrs came in but will listen to it in full but I was sad about some of what I heard but also joyous by the conviction some of those who came forward have to see Scotland as an Independent country as I thought this would be a hard demographic to change.  Hopefully these guys can get out and get talking to veterans and even serving soldiers.

http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/VeteransForIndependence

[Kmac84]

This is funny.  Looks like a hack. 

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/289974-indyref-daily-stephen-daisley-on-independence-referendum-campaign/

[neeko]

Can someone please explain why Scotland hates UKIP. (And why it's strength would be good for the yes campaign)

[DungBeetle]

I guess they find the thought of a UKIP/Tory coalition unpalatable.  If UKIP could become a force (eg 20 seats) then you'd be going back to a Thatcher style conservatism with their influence, as opposed to Cameron's woolly rule by consent nonsence?