Issues Arising from Staking

[redarmi]

All this Wazz stuff aside and back to Simon's initial post.  I think Blonde posters can be put into three camps.

Firstly, those who just like to have a punt, see it as a part of the community and like to back people they are friends with in real life or through here.  Secondly, those of us who see it as a way to make money and are serious about the value aspect to it and finally, those who do it for a living and see it as a legitimate part of their income. 

I think Woodsey and Milli have to an extent voiced the thoughts of the first group.  When people are charging 1.5 or having in clauses allowing them to buy back if they have an earlier bink it isn't really in that community spirit and why should they be backing them.  That community spirit goes two ways.  There have been some really good fun threads on here over the years from those community spirited punts and hopefully there will be another when Tikay plays the main event this year but I think a lot of those backers have started to take less punts and understandably as the whole business becomes a bit more like a business.

The second and third group have to make a decision based on price and also opportunity cost.  For myself I mentioned in an earlier thread how for a player to be worth investing in at 1.5 and for me to have the same ROI as them then they need to be worth 2.25 effectively and even in the WSOP I am not sure that is going to be the case for anyone except the very top tier of players.  Also I would much rather buy a package of tournaments, often at a lower markup, which will reduce my variance somewhat.  There have also been some very good value online packages available and my chances of a return in them are undeniably higher than in a one off 6k runner event where there are question marks about almost everyone with the format, venue, ability to handle the pressure etc.  Almost every package to the WSOP Main event has included what seems like an obligatory spiel on why the player will be well suited to handling the occasion when, as Alex said in his, literally nobody can imagine the money jumps and whether they can deal with them emotionally.

[SuuPRlim]

I think it's a lot easier for someone like me who know's mike personally to easily look over the 300 post race because I know he is a genuinely top guy and has no malice intent here, he just wants to to get the respect of the blonde community, bang up a staking thread or two and get stuck in, not dishonourable intentions AT ALL imo, if I didn't know him from Adam I too would be very much like, errrrrr WTF @ this guy...

Hopefully 4 months from now all the supportive posts ITT will have been validated and people will be loving the Wazz's contributions around here - the proof of the pudding, is in the eating! (and no stu we're not having pudding lol)

[MANTIS01]

If I staked somebody and it took 6 months to be paid I would be like wtf is this?? If the horse's reason was it's an annoying job that could be put off till tomorrow I would be like wtf is that??

Tis what I'm saying about respect. If something is billed and sold as a business arrangement you can't then turn it into a playground game. If a horse thinks paying out promptly is a hassle or an annoying job or something they can't be arsed with perhaps staking isn't something they should consider in the first place. Another thing is you can be a good guy, sociable, funny whatever but can still be terrible at business and business arrangements. Whenever somebody has done shit at their business arrangement there is a troop of people who want to say what a good guy the horse is underneath. So what if he is a good guy underneath?

Wazz is the bi-sexual right? Seems to have made solid contributions so far.

[teamonkey]

I also want to get to 300 posts so I can get some staking sorted out, however for me I want to stake others, mostly as I'm not rolled enough to play big comps and might make a chunk that way by paying a % here and there, and reading the staking rules we are not supposed to contact stakees by pm, I have no option but to try to get to 300 by some less than ethical means.I have however started a diary and am trying get to 300 that way too.

I'm not lucky enough to win much, but I'd like others to be lucky with my money, so I'll try to add some jokes etc, read but not post advice  on pha, and update my diary when I get the odd hour to write up an entry.

Mick

Ps, gl all blondes at Wembley!

[wazz]

If I staked somebody and it took 6 months to be paid I would be like wtf is this?? If the horse's reason was it's an annoying job that could be put off till tomorrow I would be like wtf is that??

Tis what I'm saying about respect. If something is billed and sold as a business arrangement you can't then turn it into a playground game. If a horse thinks paying out promptly is a hassle or an annoying job or something they can't be arsed with perhaps staking isn't something they should consider in the first place. Another thing is you can be a good guy, sociable, funny whatever but can still be terrible at business and business arrangements. Whenever somebody has done shit at their business arrangement there is a troop of people who want to say what a good guy the horse is underneath. So what if he is a good guy underneath?

Wazz is the bi-sexual right? Seems to have made solid contributions so far.

5 months exactly between day of cash and when the last guy got paid out but most got paid out before that.

It wasn't about the hassle that I didn't pay out. I spent a good couple of hundred £ on phone calls when I was in vegas to my bank in the UK and managed to get iirc £40k wired over in the 6 weeks I was there, before the currency conversion fees I had to pay. I couldn't get my deposit limits on stars raised fast enough. There was a little bit of laziness on my part in not looking for other solutions but my two biggest mistakes were not asking for help and hoping I could sell my cash for online money when the ept came round and send people online that way. I even asked a few of my investors if they were ok with that and they were. As a way of saying sorry to my investors for having to wait so long I was going to cut them half the profits I made from that. As Stu mentioned I tend to have the odd blind spot to how things seem to other people and this is a glaring example of that - I just didn't consider things from all angles. That's impossible to prove, of course - but the fact that, in my 7 year poker career, this is the only blip I've had backs that up. Could well be a fairly big blip, admittedly, but I've made a big effort to be open, honest, and transparent in all my business dealings and have had no other complaints.

[Simon Galloway]

fwiw I don't for a second think there was criminal intent.  However, your disrespect for other people was criminal.... criminally negligent.  Of course people tend to go along with whatever you ask when you are sat on $20k of their money ~ they are worried they aren't going to see it otherwise.

As you put in your staking thread, you expect people to do their bit in a timely manner - but when it came to doing your bit, you cba.

Being good at the pokerz is a solid reason for getting a markup.  Amazing how many hours people can put into getting their 6bet-7bet ranges down to a gnat's %, but can't spend 2 hours working out how to get out of Dodge with the loot.

Any player going to play a bundle of WSOP events really ought to think about it in advance ~ if you cop for 6figs, there are several options available to you.  I'd rather someone explained to me how they were going to do it in their OP than what their herbie mob looks like tbh.

Taking chunks of cash and selling it to others who just had a dice-tastrophe for UK bank/Stars/etc +vig is definitely one way to do it, but there are other efficient ways too.

[The Squid]

Why do you have to have 300 posts to buy action on Blonde? Is it supposed to be a guarantee of integrity??

[celtic]

Why do you have to have 300 posts to buy action on Blonde? Is it supposed to be a guarantee of integrity??

You need 300 to sell, people under 300 can buy, but have to do it direct with the seller.

The 300 is to stop people signing up and trying to sell.

[aaron1867]

It's only 100 on GNF, but it won't sell out over there and I'm a moderator.

[teamonkey]

Why do you have to have 300 posts to buy action on Blonde? Is it supposed to be a guarantee of integrity??

You need 300 to sell, people under 300 can buy, but have to do it direct with the seller.

The 300 is to stop people signing up and trying to sell.

Thats also against the rules according to this part of the guidelines:

- You may offer to stake players, or ask for staking, but only if you have a minimum of 300 forum posts and have been a member of the forum for at least three months.

Now i can understand the rules for asking for staking, but wanting to stake someone else and not being allowed to according to the above untill you have hit 300 posts seems a little off to me, after all, if i want to send someone money to get a chance of a return the risk is all mine, so why the need for 300 posts?

Mick

[tikay]

Why do you have to have 300 posts to buy action on Blonde? Is it supposed to be a guarantee of integrity??

You need 300 to sell, people under 300 can buy, but have to do it direct with the seller.

The 300 is to stop people signing up and trying to sell.

Thats also against the rules according to this part of the guidelines:

- You may offer to stake players, or ask for staking, but only if you have a minimum of 300 forum posts and have been a member of the forum for at least three months.

Now i can understand the rules for asking for staking, but wanting to stake someone else and not being allowed to according to the above untill you have hit 300 posts seems a little off to me, after all, if i want to send someone money to get a chance of a return the risk is all mine, so why the need for 300 posts?
Mick

Hi Mick.

It is explained as follows in the rules, which are stickied at the top of the Staking Boards......

Please remember

- not only can you not ask for staking if you have less than 300 posts but also you can't offer staking with less than 300, whether on other threads or by PM

This is designed to minimise risk to the potential stakee of not receiving funds. We recognise that in some cases people with under 300 posts will be known to the stakee but this clause has to be set for all rather than spend our time considering on a case by case basis

[tikay]

Now we KNOW it is not ideal, & is more of a catch-all than anything, & there are scores of different ways we could do it. We remain open to changing it, too, if someone comes up with something better.

But it has worked so far, or pretty much, & since we introduced it, there have been very few instances where the milk has turned sour.

The sad thing is that the filter is a bit savage, & it prevents, as we see from a few Posts above, guys like Sam Grafton (The Squid) whio has an impeccable reputation with money, & as to his financial integrity, from Staking folks.

It would be easy, of course, to say, "OK, Sam Grafton does not have to meet the 300 Post Criteria", but can you imagine the hoohah there would be if we did that? 

As with so many things, the perfect solution is not easy.

Better safe than sorry though, as the old nits say, or so I'm told. People get VERY cross when stakees do a runner, or do not cough up in a timely manner.

[BigAdz]

Fwiw, the other poker forum I am a member of, a much smaller but one where everyone knows everyone, has has a few "AWOL"s over the years, all have made well over 300 posts. Plenty more who have made under 300 posts at the time, and still all fine. Make of that what you will.
Who knows when the milk will go bad?

[tikay]

Fwiw, the other poker forum I am a member of, a much smaller but one where everyone knows everyone, has has a few "AWOL"s over the years, all have made well over 300 posts. Plenty more who have made under 300 posts at the time, and still all fine. Make of that what you will.
Who knows when the milk will go bad?

Fair comment, & the same would probably apply here.

The current method is probably the least worst.

There is no perfect solution, of course. Part of me, & the Moderators in general, think buyer beware, but we do have a responsibility, & have to address it somehow.

 

[outragous76]

Not sure why people have such an issue with it. It's a good idea.

If you are well known in the Poker community anyway, then there are loads of options of places to sell.

Blonde essentially facilitates for its active members.