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Author Topic: MEGA SAT cheating...  (Read 17330 times)
Leatherman
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« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2013, 10:24:15 AM »

Yeh understand about lost connection toilet break blah blah.. But when tank folding for 3k when ya million in chips then saying "you can get me that drink on saturday"

Last thing we want is for this behavior to go on and effect future sats.

Some pretty big and important comps coming up...

Oh and 2/3 Wink
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« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »

Yeah leatherman I remember that exact hand, was you on the table or observing? I don't know everyone's online names. Not putting in 3k when there was 40k ish in the middle was quite/very bad. Most of the players involved dont even come on here do they so it's falling on death ears, hard thing to police
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tikay
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« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2013, 10:53:45 AM »

Yeh understand about lost connection toilet break blah blah.. But when tank folding for 3k when ya million in chips then saying "you can get me that drink on saturday"Last thing we want is for this behavior to go on and effect future sats.

Some pretty big and important comps coming up...

Oh and 2/3 Wink

Looks pretty bad, huh?

But think about that.

If he was deliberately colluding (daft of me to say "deliberately", as we can't collude accidentally, that's not collusion), do you really think he was serious when he said, & assuming he did, "buy me a drink on Saturday", or just being sarcy? It COULD be just sarcasm. Chat Boxes in Online Rooms don't convey tone very well, we all know that. 

Could someone really be that daft, as to say that in the chat box after deliberately colluding? If they are that daft, then they might also fold with stupid odds to call.

I'm not trying to defend colluders, not at all, I just think we should exercise the same care in judging these things as we would expect others to when attacking us.

If everyone or anyone who sees suspicious activity reports it to DTD, they'd soon build up a picture if one individual was constantly at it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 10:55:24 AM by tikay » Logged

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Eso Kral
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« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2013, 10:55:34 AM »

I messaged Nicola to look into something from when I pure bubbled on Tuesday evening where collusion was in abundance and someone offered $100 for the SB to fold as he was basically allin for the BB and is bound to be in the chat logs.

Here is the link to my diary plus on the last page "H" posts a hand history from the event which is interesting
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54701.2805

Nicola did say that my message is being investigated though.
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tikay
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2013, 10:59:00 AM »

I messaged Nicola to look into something from when I pure bubbled on Tuesday evening where collusion was in abundance and someone offered $100 for the SB to fold as he was basically allin for the BB and is bound to be in the chat logs.

Here is the link to my diary plus on the last page "H" posts a hand history from the event which is interesting
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54701.2805

Nicola did say that my message is being investigated though.

IMO, messaging DTD immediately is exactly correct, as I said in my previous Post, & near the top of the thread.

I think my discomfort is this sort of unbridled witch-hunt thing, it just sort of sits badly with me, & we've seen "mis-reporting" already.
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2013, 11:26:50 AM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,
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Nicola Dusk Till Dawn
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« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2013, 12:40:13 PM »

Hi Guys

From tonight we are banning the chat nearing the bubble this should eliminate players trying to discuss the bubble.

I have also sent off the previous nights chats to be reviewed by the fraud and security team and if we find any players to have colluded we will take appropriate action.

If you have any concerns with particular players please email them to support@dusktilldawnpoker.com and they will be able to send off immediately.

Cheers Nicola
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« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2013, 12:46:59 PM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who is looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 02:09:04 PM by Dubai » Logged
NEWY
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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2013, 01:40:08 PM »

Hi Guys

From tonight we are banning the chat nearing the bubble this should eliminate players trying to discuss the bubble.

I have also sent off the previous nights chats to be reviewed by the fraud and security team and if we find any players to have colluded we will take appropriate action.

If you have any concerns with particular players please email them to support@dusktilldawnpoker.com and they will be able to send off immediately.

Cheers Nicola

Dont know y but my initial thought was of sinclair and his boys all gathered round a monitor reviewing the tapes saying we will have him when he comes in... and that 1.
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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2013, 02:08:01 PM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who isnt looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against


dat sense. <3
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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2013, 02:39:48 PM »

Tikay/Tighty - Thanks for addressing this and removing the post, much appreciated.  The story told by smashedagain was wrong which is why i needed to get this addressed.  Going forward if DTD want to look into this no problem.  As mentioned before i have played a number of sats and never had any issues before. I have nothing to hide.

Banning the chat is defo the way forward.



Smashedagain - The post i was talking about was in Eso Kral's diary.  Your right about me chatting in the box after and in hindsight i should have just let it go.  I'm  quite a placid guy and normally let alot of stuff go but some of these keyboard warriors bring out the worst in me.  Anyway its done now as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you for the apology and offer of the drink and lunch did i hear you say!! umm look forward to that. Smiley
If I'm still in i ll come and find you. You ll be the one with the multi coloured clothing right?

Thanks

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cambridgealex
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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2013, 02:50:23 PM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who is looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against

This.

Banning the chat would reduce things though.
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2013, 03:51:43 PM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who is looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against

This.

Banning the chat would reduce things though.

Not enough, still going to go on. The chat shows people don't understand that it is wrong, which is a key issue. When players are aware it can be clamped down on a lot harder. But if people want to cheat it is very hard to stop them.
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cambridgealex
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« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2013, 04:02:30 PM »

review the hand historys, if cheating went on it's so easy to spot, fk it I'd even volunteer to review them if DTD sent me the HH's for the last 5 sats with the hands 5 places off the bubble onwards.

Chat Logs don't mean anything and prove nothing all the chat does is aggravate the people who believe cheating is going on. Anyone can say w/e they like if it's inoffensive and there is nothing anyone can do about that,

In satellites its incredibly hard to "Prove" cheating as you obv know. People can make incorrect mathematical decisions and fold for a variety of reasons, such as not needing to call because its a satellite etc, they could even say its in their interests to fold to player A getting 7/1 with AK because he is a weak player and calling against player B with AK getting 9/4 because he is stronger given its a satellite and it affects the players longterm equity in the main event. So whilst its obvious to everyone with a brain who is cheating and who is looking at hand histories, anyone with a brain can make a number of arguments that basically allow them to do what they want in satellites and its very hard to argue against

This.

Banning the chat would reduce things though.

Not enough, still going to go on. The chat shows people don't understand that it is wrong, which is a key issue. When players are aware it can be clamped down on a lot harder. But if people want to cheat it is very hard to stop them.

Nobody has said that banning chat will solve the problem. Obviously it is still going to go on. It will reduce it though.
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Skippy
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« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2013, 04:24:56 PM »

Has anyone mentioned that this format of satellites is always going to be a big target for collusion? That's why Stars ditched their double-or-nothings- a few mates would all join the  same one and work as a team which gave them a huge advantage. If you've got a big stack near the bubble, you can decide who you call and try and knock out and who you can just ignore (your mates), at very little cost to yourself.

Here is another format for satellites that solve this problem (it's not my idea, I've seen it on 2+2 somewhere). I know you can't do it on iPoker without reprogramming, which isn't going to happen, but DTD could do it live without any problems, especially since they've got a great clock/ tournament management software.
 
Play until reg closes/ rebuys end and tot up a) how many total chips are in play and b) how many seats there are.  Divide the number of chips in play by the number of seats. Let's say there is a million chips in play, and 10 seats.  So that gives us 100,000 chips (1 million / 10) for a seat.

Tournament plays as normal. Once a player accumulates  100,000 chips, they've won a seat. Their chips are removed from play* and they go to the cash desk and get their prize. The tournament continues, removing players as they get knocked out (down to 0 chips) or make it to 100,000 chips, in which case they'll get a seat. Eventually there will be two players left playing heads-up for the 10th and final seat.

This format doesn't suffer from collusion, or at least no more than ordinary tournament poker. It also cuts down on dealing costs, makes the satellite quicker for the same structure, and doesn't require special satellite strategy on the part of the players (this could be a disadvantage if you are a player who has mastered satellite strategy).

* There are various alternatives for what to do if a player wins a pot that takes them over 100,000 chips. You can either take all their chips out- in which case the total number of chips in play won't make it possible for everyone to get to 100,000. You can chuck the excess chips over 100,000 back into the pots at the tables somehow. Or you can award one seat, let the player keep his surplus chips over 100,000, and let him try to win 2 seats in the same satellite.

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