The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MANTIS01]

because that union provides you with frictionless access to hundreds of millions of (in a global context) wealthy consumers, consistent with being in a globalised economy with just in time supply chains

With a say at the table on everything

The EU also has a role in preserving peace,indeed this was its original formation

Notions of imperalist sovereignty are outdated in this global construct

All that said globalisation clearly has a downside, and attitudes to free movement of labour ("taking our jobs, taking our benefits, we benefit in our region from euro money" but we don't care type attitudes) is the most obvious manifestation of that and that drove the 52% vote

I am confident Remain have been diligent in educating me about the economic argument.

On an individual level I figure economic insanity is flouncing out of your job on principle.

But that seems to be a growing trend.

And shows that people from all walks of life act emotionally and illogically.

Overall seems concerning that a majority of people voted for something that is not possible or will not be delivered. Red lines like migration, law & sovereignty undoubtedly drove the Leave vote but I'd say a BIG majority wanted some element of EU reform. But hey the reality is there isn't any choice. What if the EU introduce a new law that's a red line for you? Sorry no choice. Whichever way people view Brexit I think it's dark times for democracy. 

[nirvana]

because that union provides you with frictionless access to hundreds of millions of (in a global context) wealthy consumers, consistent with being in a globalised economy with just in time supply chains

With a say at the table on everything

The EU also has a role in preserving peace,indeed this was its original formation

Notions of imperalist sovereignty are outdated in this global construct

All that said globalisation clearly has a downside, and attitudes to free movement of labour ("taking our jobs, taking our benefits, we benefit in our region from euro money" but we don't care type attitudes) is the most obvious manifestation of that and that drove the 52% vote

I am confident Remain have been diligent in educating me about the economic argument.

On an individual level I figure economic insanity is flouncing out of your job on principle.

But that seems to be a growing trend.

And shows that people from all walks of life act emotionally and illogically.

Overall seems concerning that a majority of people voted for something that is not possible or will not be delivered. Red lines like migration, law & sovereignty undoubtedly drove the Leave vote but I'd say a BIG majority wanted some element of EU reform. But hey the reality is there isn't any choice. What if the EU introduce a new law that's a red line for you? Sorry no choice. Whichever way people view Brexit I think it's dark times for democracy. 

I
Don't know the exact. Umbers but flouncing out of yr 130k job into an 80k job for life iin many cases is an option most people dont have..tosserz

[RED-DOG]

Help!

I can't stop watching the news and I'm missing the snooker.

[MANTIS01]

because that union provides you with frictionless access to hundreds of millions of (in a global context) wealthy consumers, consistent with being in a globalised economy with just in time supply chains

With a say at the table on everything

The EU also has a role in preserving peace,indeed this was its original formation

Notions of imperalist sovereignty are outdated in this global construct

All that said globalisation clearly has a downside, and attitudes to free movement of labour ("taking our jobs, taking our benefits, we benefit in our region from euro money" but we don't care type attitudes) is the most obvious manifestation of that and that drove the 52% vote

I am confident Remain have been diligent in educating me about the economic argument.

On an individual level I figure economic insanity is flouncing out of your job on principle.

But that seems to be a growing trend.

And shows that people from all walks of life act emotionally and illogically.

Overall seems concerning that a majority of people voted for something that is not possible or will not be delivered. Red lines like migration, law & sovereignty undoubtedly drove the Leave vote but I'd say a BIG majority wanted some element of EU reform. But hey the reality is there isn't any choice. What if the EU introduce a new law that's a red line for you? Sorry no choice. Whichever way people view Brexit I think it's dark times for democracy. 

I
Don't know the exact. Umbers but flouncing out of yr 130k job into an 80k job for life iin many cases is an option most people dont have..tosserz

yo but that's 'sub-optimal'

which is important wizard speak in such economic debates

[TightEnd]

because that union provides you with frictionless access to hundreds of millions of (in a global context) wealthy consumers, consistent with being in a globalised economy with just in time supply chains

With a say at the table on everything

The EU also has a role in preserving peace,indeed this was its original formation

Notions of imperalist sovereignty are outdated in this global construct

All that said globalisation clearly has a downside, and attitudes to free movement of labour ("taking our jobs, taking our benefits, we benefit in our region from euro money" but we don't care type attitudes) is the most obvious manifestation of that and that drove the 52% vote

I am confident Remain have been diligent in educating me about the economic argument.

On an individual level I figure economic insanity is flouncing out of your job on principle.

But that seems to be a growing trend.

And shows that people from all walks of life act emotionally and illogically.

Overall seems concerning that a majority of people voted for something that is not possible or will not be delivered. Red lines like migration, law & sovereignty undoubtedly drove the Leave vote but I'd say a BIG majority wanted some element of EU reform. But hey the reality is there isn't any choice. What if the EU introduce a new law that's a red line for you? Sorry no choice. Whichever way people view Brexit I think it's dark times for democracy. 

I agree with you (shock) but the fault was in both campaigns, the terrible simplistic wording of the ref question, Cameron, undoubtedly the botched election that cost May her majority and introduced the DUP holding the balance of power etc

As i think you said previously, Irish border was a sideline issue pre referendum but has been crucial

Johnson flipped on single market...some brexiters thought leave meant staying in CU, some didn't

whole thing has been a clusterfuck from 2014-now and we have many more years til its resolved

[MANTIS01]

Yah but in spite of all the bumbling idiots involved it is simply union membership that never offers up any other viable choice moving forwards. Seems of concern.

Well in fact it would offer choices if it wasn't for people and emotion. Our euro pals could easily say 'fare thee well' and give us a fitting free trade deal.

But no they don't like us very much and want to bring us down a peg or two.

So deny our people any viable choice.

Same time happy to let their euro buddies Ireland go to hell. Seems dark for sure.

[Tal]

There are 650 Members of Parliament.

Give me your line on how many have read the entire draft deal.

[TightEnd]

There are 650 Members of Parliament.

Give me your line on how many have read the entire draft deal.

Under 50

Over 100 threw their toys out of the pram yesterday, we know that was before any of them could have read it, and did a pre-emptive attack on May

Is it any wonder that politicians get a bad rap?

not exactly doing wonders for turnout at the next GE....

[ripple11]

Penny Mordaunt apparently pushing May for a Commons free vote......maybe helps attract Labour MP's?

[Tal]

There are 650 Members of Parliament.

Give me your line on how many have read the entire draft deal.

Under 50

Over 100 threw their toys out of the pram yesterday, we know that was before any of them could have read it, and did a pre-emptive attack on May

Is it any wonder that politicians get a bad rap?

not exactly doing wonders for turnout at the next GE....

Not like we're the only country where that would happen, but it's no less depressing.

[StuartHopkin]

Is the vote really not going to take place for another 4 weeks?

Is this real?

[Karabiner]

Hope we end up staying, so this can hit 2000 pages

Is remaining actually still an option?

Do we just go back cap in hand and ask for the last two years to be wiped off the slate?

[kukushkin88]

Hope we end up staying, so this can hit 2000 pages

Is remaining actually still an option?

Do we just go back cap in hand and ask for the last two years to be wiped off the slate?

Yeah, this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s in everyone’s best interest and the only immediate downside would be a disillusioned British electorate (some of it), that’s probably an overrated issue. The wasted time and money is an irrelevance from a decision making POV.

It would near certainly lead to more years of Conservative government, so more suffering for lots of people and further destruction of the public sector. That has to be an acceptable price though.

[BigAdz]

Lol. Oh yes. If only we could stop the process and magic Jezza and Diane into power and everyone will live in a world of milk and honey..........

[Jon MW]

Hope we end up staying, so this can hit 2000 pages

Is remaining actually still an option?

Do we just go back cap in hand and ask for the last two years to be wiped off the slate?

Yeah, this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s in everyone’s best interest and the only immediate downside would be a disillusioned British electorate (some of it), that’s probably an overrated issue. The wasted time and money is an irrelevance from a decision making POV.

It would near certainly lead to more years of Conservative government, so more suffering for lots of people and further destruction of the public sector. That has to be an acceptable price though.

I suspect if we tried to cancel it then the EU would impose a set of conditions for staying; it would probably still be in everyone's long term best interests to do so but I would expect we'd lose a lot of our current opt outs if it was cancelled.