The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

This is a brutal piece by our friend Mr Dunt, superbly written and with a lot of understanding of how we got to the mess we are in.

"Theresa May is strategically inept, tactically misguided, presentationally catastrophic, and promoting a deal with nothing to recommend it, but apart from that she's doing terribly well"

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/12/07/week-in-review-all-may-s-faults-come-home-to-roost

This sums it up perfectly imo. A really bad liar, relentlessly lying in this spot is an extraordinary spectacle.

[MANTIS01]

In fact I can see Paul standing up in parliament to present the magical deal he pulled out of a top hat now...

"You'll like this...not a lot"

do unicorns fit in hats?

Depends on the skill of the magician

[TightEnd]

In fact I can see Paul standing up in parliament to present the magical deal he pulled out of a top hat now...

"You'll like this...not a lot"

do unicorns fit in hats?

Depends on the skill of the magician

rather than considering that unicorns do not exist, now matter how often you try to stick a cornetto cone on a shetland's nose

[MANTIS01]

The most valuable commodity we have in life is time

Unlike little cuckoo I don’t invest significant amounts of time chasing certain members around the forum responding to posts that I regard as valueless. Especially indulging in weird anger-less rants, whatever they are.

I think your point that it’s a strange thing for me to do has some merit. I do consider not doing it.

When I say your posts have no value, I suppose what I mean is that they can safely be ignored by anyone with any knowledge of the matters at hand. The biggest problem politics faces atm though is misinformation, you are a misinformation machine. It doesn’t need many people to think what you say has merit before it really is a problem.

An anger-less rant saying my valueless post has merit. Gorgeous.

It really is a problem when 17million agree

[MANTIS01]

In fact I can see Paul standing up in parliament to present the magical deal he pulled out of a top hat now...

"You'll like this...not a lot"

do unicorns fit in hats?

Depends on the skill of the magician

rather than considering that unicorns do not exist, now matter how often you try to stick a cornetto cone on a shetland's nose

that's magic

[nirvana]

Last car I bought the seller refused my offer and said his price was the lowest he would go

I said fair enough and started to leave

He then called me back and offered a lower price

At the time I didn’t realise this process was “magical”

because of course such simplistic analogies are entirely representative of a situation where the EU won't move its red lines and neither can we, in large part because to do so jeopardises the good friday agreement and with it (potentially) Irish peace, which is more important than any Brexit outcome.

Is it the case that this would be true if compromising on red lines automatically meant one of the parties will start to put up a hard border. None of the parties would do this so it's a non issue in respect of the GFA.

It's obviously a bit more complicated when it comes to the how of tarriffs and regulations application but the GFA isn't under threat at all imo and the other issues are just admin that will take  years to unwind, just as it will everywhere else where the EU/UK interface (in the absence of an FTA).

[Woodsey]

Yup, some never learn.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/46492287/alastair-campbell-told-to-shut-up-during-newsnight-brexit-debate

[kukushkin88]

Last car I bought the seller refused my offer and said his price was the lowest he would go

I said fair enough and started to leave

He then called me back and offered a lower price

At the time I didn’t realise this process was “magical”

because of course such simplistic analogies are entirely representative of a situation where the EU won't move its red lines and neither can we, in large part because to do so jeopardises the good friday agreement and with it (potentially) Irish peace, which is more important than any Brexit outcome.

Is it the case that this would be true if compromising on red lines automatically meant one of the parties will start to put up a hard border. None of the parties would do this so it's a non issue in respect of the GFA.

It's obviously a bit more complicated when it comes to the how of tarriffs and regulations application but the GFA isn't under threat at all imo and the other issues are just admin that will take  years to unwind, just as it will everywhere else where the EU/UK interface (in the absence of an FTA).

It’s not something I have much knowledge about. The message coming out seems to be is that the peace is much more fragile than we think and it’s difficult to judge what might destabilise it. That it’s convenient for the remain argument doesn’t make it untrue.

[MANTIS01]

Would be interested in hearing from the Corbyn fanboys what magic trick their hero is proposing

Haven’t see him pulling any bunches of flowers out his crumpled jacket sleeves lately

[kukushkin88]

Would be interested in hearing from the Corbyn fanboys what magic trick their hero is proposing

Haven’t see him pulling any bunches of flowers out his crumpled jacket sleeves lately

It seems clear he doesn’t have the answer. The closest thing he has to an answer imo, is if he somehow gets talked in to remain.

[Longines]

On the other hand...

The Port Operators point out that Dover handles only 6% of port volumes and that the forecast for doom may be overdone.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20181208/281496457364180

On the other hand...

The Port Operators group is one of the two major port trade associations. Guess which one Dover belongs to?

[nirvana]

Last car I bought the seller refused my offer and said his price was the lowest he would go

I said fair enough and started to leave

He then called me back and offered a lower price

At the time I didn’t realise this process was “magical”

because of course such simplistic analogies are entirely representative of a situation where the EU won't move its red lines and neither can we, in large part because to do so jeopardises the good friday agreement and with it (potentially) Irish peace, which is more important than any Brexit outcome.

Is it the case that this would be true if compromising on red lines automatically meant one of the parties will start to put up a hard border. None of the parties would do this so it's a non issue in respect of the GFA.

It's obviously a bit more complicated when it comes to the how of tarriffs and regulations application but the GFA isn't under threat at all imo and the other issues are just admin that will take  years to unwind, just as it will everywhere else where the EU/UK interface (in the absence of an FTA).

It’s not something I have much knowledge about. The message coming out seems to be is that the peace is much more fragile than we think and it’s difficult to judge what might destabilise it. That it’s convenient for the remain argument doesn’t make it untrue.

tbh, it's hard to know how one plans to accommodate the tiny numbers of people who may want to take up arms due to an imaginary EU border or because there is some admin involved in import/export

[DungBeetle]

When I was a kid and very poor the state did loads to help. Free milk in morning, free dinner at lunchtime, free education including free stellar grammar school, free library to study in, free dentist and doctor, amazing. Other countries and people in genuine poverty must be so envious. I took full advantage of all the opportunities. Sorry we can’t force people to make a better life for themselves but I will keep giving a huge chunk of my salary to help.

Morning all,

It’s a great success story *. Do you think having a Conservative government is good or bad for bringing about conditions where others can achieve the same?

If it’s good. What policy of theirs was it that helped?

It’s a shame how many people go on this journey and then want to pull up the ladder behind them, plenty of my own family included.

I don't think any political party can or should enforcedly change the attitudes of free citizens. Government can open the door of opportunity but shouldn't shove people through it. It's down to individuals and families to decide for themselves what path they wish to take with the freedom of choice they have. I merely present the opportunities that were open to me and how I took advantage, as anybody can. If you went round many of the estates in Birmingham spouting your liberal woolly nonsense about helping poor folk towards better education and a brighter future you would just get knocked spark out. This is the real world not your socialist fantasy world mate.   

:-) What is it that people like about this idiocy? If one of the Mantis fans has insight, I’d genuinely like to know.

Why is it whenever you are struggling to win an argument you resort to direct name calling, have we not shown you far more subtle ways of doing it?

Or maybe its just too subtle for you......

You actually look at that and think I’m struggling to win an argument? I asked a sensible question. He wrote something a little more idiotic than his norm, which had nothing to do with my question and displayed extraordinary ignorance in doing so. Then he said I’d be beaten up in Birmingham. Yeah, it’s me who’s losing the argument :-).

Because I do think you’re a good guy at heart, I actually worry about you. I think it’s dangerous if people read the Mantis nonense and attribute value to it.

At heart yes. Still enjoy the thought of you    after every Mantis 

Cheers

It’s a shame to disappoint you but I have a remarkable inability to get angry. I’ve never seen anger achieve anything that outweighed the downside or that couldn’t be better achieved by other means. Angry people tend to be next to useless at life in my experience.

* Maybe “remarkable” leaves me open to the usual ‘grandiose’ criticism. I only mean that lots of people consider it worthy of note.

This made me chuckle Kush - you sometimes come over as the poster most prone to rage on here!!

[kukushkin88]

When I was a kid and very poor the state did loads to help. Free milk in morning, free dinner at lunchtime, free education including free stellar grammar school, free library to study in, free dentist and doctor, amazing. Other countries and people in genuine poverty must be so envious. I took full advantage of all the opportunities. Sorry we can’t force people to make a better life for themselves but I will keep giving a huge chunk of my salary to help.

Morning all,

It’s a great success story *. Do you think having a Conservative government is good or bad for bringing about conditions where others can achieve the same?

If it’s good. What policy of theirs was it that helped?

It’s a shame how many people go on this journey and then want to pull up the ladder behind them, plenty of my own family included.

I don't think any political party can or should enforcedly change the attitudes of free citizens. Government can open the door of opportunity but shouldn't shove people through it. It's down to individuals and families to decide for themselves what path they wish to take with the freedom of choice they have. I merely present the opportunities that were open to me and how I took advantage, as anybody can. If you went round many of the estates in Birmingham spouting your liberal woolly nonsense about helping poor folk towards better education and a brighter future you would just get knocked spark out. This is the real world not your socialist fantasy world mate.   

:-) What is it that people like about this idiocy? If one of the Mantis fans has insight, I’d genuinely like to know.

Why is it whenever you are struggling to win an argument you resort to direct name calling, have we not shown you far more subtle ways of doing it?

Or maybe its just too subtle for you......

You actually look at that and think I’m struggling to win an argument? I asked a sensible question. He wrote something a little more idiotic than his norm, which had nothing to do with my question and displayed extraordinary ignorance in doing so. Then he said I’d be beaten up in Birmingham. Yeah, it’s me who’s losing the argument :-).

Because I do think you’re a good guy at heart, I actually worry about you. I think it’s dangerous if people read the Mantis nonense and attribute value to it.

At heart yes. Still enjoy the thought of you    after every Mantis 

Cheers

It’s a shame to disappoint you but I have a remarkable inability to get angry. I’ve never seen anger achieve anything that outweighed the downside or that couldn’t be better achieved by other means. Angry people tend to be next to useless at life in my experience.

* Maybe “remarkable” leaves me open to the usual ‘grandiose’ criticism. I only mean that lots of people consider it worthy of note.

This made me chuckle Kush - you sometimes come over as the poster most prone to rage on here!!

Heart on fire, brain on ice. Is the aim :-) If we think how bad this government is and how crazy some of the stuff we hear from the trolls that suppprt them is, I think I do OK.

(Only two trolls, I think)

[MANTIS01]

An opposition who don’t have any answers, lead by a racist, trampy communist and Dianne Abbott would make such a great alternative government