The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Longines]

Sounds like a Leave trope, can't see anything about HS2 on https://ec.europa.eu/inea/en/ten-t/ten-t-projects/projects-by-transport-mode/rail but interested if I missed it.

[BigAdz]

In other news,

HS2 is going to be over budget.

Who’d have thunk it? A vanity project driven by the EU is going to cost the UK some amount more than the £32bn original 2010 guesstimate, and indeed some considerable amount more than the current £56bn figure which appears to be deliberately understated.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure_en

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

A bit of a stretch blaming it on the EU.   

Trust me, its not the EU.

I have been in rail meetings with companies awarded stretches of HS2, and they haven't got the first idea about anything beyond 20th century ballast track....which isn't the design......

I would, but then there’s this
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/2015-088-hs2-controlled-by-eu-not-our-gov/

Yes, it’s from an anti-EU source but worth reading and, if you feel so inclined, finding a way to refute it.

Nothing there to say it's the EUs fault it's over budget, just that they have a large say in its origins.

What that also doesn't say is that Carillion had their dirty hands all over aspects of  HS2 as well, so all that work with them went for a Burton too.

[kukushkin88]

That Europrobe site is an eye opener. It seems to be mostly New World Order/Deep State related extreme conspiracy theory.

It comes straight back to what was discussed yesterday, if people say untrue things with absolute authority, there will always be a danger that they will be believed.

It would be interesting to know what Pokerpops thinks of the NWO/Deep State articles?

[Pokerpops]

In other news,

HS2 is going to be over budget.

Who’d have thunk it? A vanity project driven by the EU is going to cost the UK some amount more than the £32bn original 2010 guesstimate, and indeed some considerable amount more than the current £56bn figure which appears to be deliberately understated.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure_en

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

A bit of a stretch blaming it on the EU.   

Trust me, its not the EU.

I have been in rail meetings with companies awarded stretches of HS2, and they haven't got the first idea about anything beyond 20th century ballast track....which isn't the design......

I would, but then there’s this
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/2015-088-hs2-controlled-by-eu-not-our-gov/

Yes, it’s from an anti-EU source but worth reading and, if you feel so inclined, finding a way to refute it.

Nothing there to say it's the EUs fault it's over budget, just that they have a large say in its origins.

What that also doesn't say is that Carillion had their dirty hands all over aspects of  HS2 as well, so all that work with them went for a Burton too.

I didn’t say it’s the EU’s fault it’s over budget. I said that the driver for even thinking about it stems from our membership obligations and the TEN-T Project. It serves no useful purpose that I can discern.

It’s over budget because these projects are consistently over budget.

[BigAdz]

That Europrobe site is an eye opener. It seems to be mostly New World Order/Deep State related extreme conspiracy theory.

It comes straight back to what was discussed yesterday, if people say untrue things with absolute authority, there will always be a danger that they will be believed.

It would be interesting to know what Pokerpops thinks of the NWO/Deep State articles?

NWO were great when Hulk Hogan was boss.......

[Doobs]

In other news,

HS2 is going to be over budget.

Who’d have thunk it? A vanity project driven by the EU is going to cost the UK some amount more than the £32bn original 2010 guesstimate, and indeed some considerable amount more than the current £56bn figure which appears to be deliberately understated.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure_en

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

A bit of a stretch blaming it on the EU.   

Trust me, its not the EU.

I have been in rail meetings with companies awarded stretches of HS2, and they haven't got the first idea about anything beyond 20th century ballast track....which isn't the design......

I would, but then there’s this
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/2015-088-hs2-controlled-by-eu-not-our-gov/

Yes, it’s from an anti-EU source but worth reading and, if you feel so inclined, finding a way to refute it.

Nothing there to say it's the EUs fault it's over budget, just that they have a large say in its origins.

What that also doesn't say is that Carillion had their dirty hands all over aspects of  HS2 as well, so all that work with them went for a Burton too.

I didn’t say it’s the EU’s fault it’s over budget. I said that the driver for even thinking about it stems from our membership obligations and the TEN-T Project. It serves no useful purpose that I can discern.

It’s over budget because these projects are consistently over budget.

There is zero evidence it was EU or TEN T driven.

I have read the first few pagrs of command paper 7827 which is the early report on it and the first National Audit office report.  Neither states that it was TEN-T driven.  I didn't see any mentions on TEN-T in either report, but am on my phone, so couldn't use PDF search.  If TEN-T was the reason it should be clearly spelt out.

Surely it can't be a vanity project and driven by an outside body anyway, so that seems contradictory.  

The name is HS2, which is a direct follow on of HS1, which proceeds TEN-T, so that seems a more likely start to the thinking.

Over to you, but dare say you are better off not wasting your time on this bollocks.

[Doobs]

UK TEN-T projects.

https://ec.europa.eu/inea/en/ten-t/ten-t-projects/projects-by-country/united-kingdom

It seems clear the update of the West Coast mainline has been funded, and even then EU contributions are only a small part of the projects.

Why are they funding the West Coast Mainline if the EU are the drivers behind HS2.   It makes no sense.   You'd expect a whole load of HS2 funding from 2009, wouldn't you?

[Pokerpops]

In other news,

HS2 is going to be over budget.

Who’d have thunk it? A vanity project driven by the EU is going to cost the UK some amount more than the £32bn original 2010 guesstimate, and indeed some considerable amount more than the current £56bn figure which appears to be deliberately understated.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure_en

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

With due deference to the patience and knowledge of Doobs in refuting this - I apologise for wasting time and effort blaming this on the EU.

 our own homegrown politicians and administrators can fuck up without outside help.

[BigAdz]

Just waiting for Kush to come down hard on you you misleading everyone with your strongly worded initial conviction.


No apology for wasting my time though?

[TightEnd]

BritainThinks review of the year's focus groups unearthed this cracking quote on the public's view of a No Deal Brexit:

"It would be absolute chaos. Like when KFC ran out of chicken, I’m sure everyone remembers that, that was mad, and this would be even worse”.

[TightEnd]

"Chancellor will ambush Cabinet ministers (including some quite Brexity ones) to demand to know why they've only spent 35% of 2018/19's No Deal planning money - or £530million of a £1.5bn total." (the problem is apparently recruitment of staff with the expertise required)

"Cabinet will today order Britain’s six million businesses to start immediate preparations for a No Deal Brexit - significant shift in Govt's position with just 101 days to go."

"Government ministries also to be told to park all non-urgent business to concentrate as on Brexit No Deal contingency preparations."

[TightEnd]

Funny stuff

[Doobs]

In other news,

HS2 is going to be over budget.

Who’d have thunk it? A vanity project driven by the EU is going to cost the UK some amount more than the £32bn original 2010 guesstimate, and indeed some considerable amount more than the current £56bn figure which appears to be deliberately understated.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure_en

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/hs2-out-of-control-care-homes-childrens-centres

With due deference to the patience and knowledge of Doobs in refuting this - I apologise for wasting time and effort blaming this on the EU.

 our own homegrown politicians and administrators can fuck up without outside help.

Very true.   

It is astonishing the project is still ongoing, though the fact both parties are complicit in this makes it harder for MPs to back down/criticise.   Guess the fact parliament is swamped by Brexit isn't going to help either.

[StuartHopkin]

"Chancellor will ambush Cabinet ministers (including some quite Brexity ones) to demand to know why they've only spent 35% of 2018/19's No Deal planning money - or £530million of a £1.5bn total." (the problem is apparently recruitment of staff with the expertise required)

"Cabinet will today order Britain’s six million businesses to start immediate preparations for a No Deal Brexit - significant shift in Govt's position with just 101 days to go."

"Government ministries also to be told to park all non-urgent business to concentrate as on Brexit No Deal contingency preparations."

I'll get right on that then.

Tell half our employees not to come back after Xmas and all our European customers that they have a new Dynamic and Variable price list for 2019.

Just a complete joke.

[Pokerpops]

Just waiting for Kush to come down hard on you you misleading everyone with your strongly worded initial conviction.


No apology for wasting my time though?

Hell’s teeth the post count would be through the roof if we all start apologising to each other.

Still, here goes, I’m sorry that you feel you need an apology.