The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Pokerpops]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

One of the issues you have here is you lay out a series of facts from the Government website but then you explain why you don't like the facts based on anecdotes about mansions, tidy hotels and ordinary folk.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous - maybe people should be able to opt out of contributing to the NHS transplant service so that the beneficiaries of transplants have to pay more to make up the shortfall.

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...


And how, pray, else am I to explain the reason for my opinions? A bit like Pokergrumps, am I supposed to record interviews with friends, dig up the Jamaican family that lived in the London hotel for a couple of years, or do you want me to search for hours for the actual article, because I really don't feel the need to go that far to justify an opinion?

Citing some genuine sources for the opinions you are free to hold would help you avoid looking like a Daily Mail or Express reader. Unless of course that is the source of the evidence you considered before forming those opinions?

[MANTIS01]

Perhaps getting bogged down with minority issues isn't wise. A tiny % of migrants fleeing persecution deserve our help and we should be proud to offer it.

But let's say we remain in the EU and in the future Turkey joins the club. Is the prospect of 75million new EU citizens having the freedom to move to the UK a good position to be in? Or would some control be prudent? 

[BigAdz]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

One of the issues you have here is you lay out a series of facts from the Government website but then you explain why you don't like the facts based on anecdotes about mansions, tidy hotels and ordinary folk.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous - maybe people should be able to opt out of contributing to the NHS transplant service so that the beneficiaries of transplants have to pay more to make up the shortfall.

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...


And how, pray, else am I to explain the reason for my opinions? A bit like Pokergrumps, am I supposed to record interviews with friends, dig up the Jamaican family that lived in the London hotel for a couple of years, or do you want me to search for hours for the actual article, because I really don't feel the need to go that far to justify an opinion?

Citing some genuine sources for the opinions you are free to hold would help you avoid looking like a Daily Mail or Express reader. Unless of course that is the source of the evidence you considered before forming those opinions?

If it's not clear, what I "look like" to you really doesn't bother me.

If you aren't well enough read to have seen some of the stories I have mentioned, or mix in company that is solely liberal leftie, then I'm not going to further educate you.

All you nutters chasing me around, keeps the post count up though.

[Longines]

But let's say we remain in the EU and in the future Turkey joins the club. Is the prospect of 75million new EU citizens having the freedom to move to the UK a good position to be in? Or would some control be prudent? 

Any Turkish treaty of accession is going to have those controls. Whether we choose to exercise those controls would be up to Parliament, similar to when it chose not to stop anyone from the eight new member countries in 2004. I assume they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

[RED-DOG]

This forum is full of nutters chasing BigAdz around.

It must be true, I read it somewhere.

[MANTIS01]

But let's say we remain in the EU and in the future Turkey joins the club. Is the prospect of 75million new EU citizens having the freedom to move to the UK a good position to be in? Or would some control be prudent? 

Any Turkish treaty of accession is going to have those controls. Whether we choose to exercise those controls would be up to Parliament, similar to when it chose not to stop anyone from the eight new member countries in 2004. I assume they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

If freedom of movement is a good idea why is agreeing to freedom of movement a mistake?

[BigAdz]

This forum is full of nutters chasing BigAdz around.

It must be true, I read it somewhere.

By the very nature of this........Thank you M'Lud

[aaron1867]

I get disappointed when accusations of xenophobia start flying around because it's really a logistical issue which deserves serious attention. This week we saw on the telly news how many folk simply cannot get a doctor's appointment and I must say that I've been trying to access a GP for 2 weeks myself only to be told there aren't any appointments. We know there's an aging population issue, we know there aren't enough hospital beds, there's a very real housing crisis, lots of my friends can't get preferred school places. On top of that I find driving anywhere ridiculous, always total gridlock on the M25 & M6. The list is endless and it's a problem we need to deal with or quality of life will diminish rapidly.

So under this freedom of movement system how many new schools and hospitals have been built? How many new roads and railway lines? How many more GP's have been recruited? I'm well aware that migration is a positive for our country's GP...so how much has been spent on social infrastructure? What's more let's say we stay in the EU and the organisation allow Turkey to join or another country. Let's say a million more economic migrants arrive in the space of a year. Are we able to cope? What are the plans to accommodate? It's all very well just bleating xenophobia. But what is the concrete plan that mitigates the risk of such freedom? Sure thing exiting the EU will dink our economy by a few % but what's the wider picture in terms of quality of life when control is within our own hands? Why is having control of our own borders such a bad idea? I'm sure it's a genuine and valid concern for a lot of ordinary folk who still enjoy our multicultural society.

From GOV. UK

What you can expect to get as an Asylum Seeker. Not a bad deal eh....Not really surprising why so many want this changed. We often don't treat our own people this well.


Asylum support
Contents
Overview
What you'll get
Eligibility
How to claim
Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support
You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.

Your situation   Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother   £3
Baby under 1 year old   £5
Child aged 1 to 3   £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.

Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

This post just sums you & Brexiteers up. Picking on Asylum seekers once again, just because the hateful Katie Hopkins has done a video. You definitely live up to the hateful brexit voter Adz.

These asylum seekers aren't going to be living it up in Mayfair, they aren't getting hundreds of pounds a week. They are instead going to be in basic accom with £35/week, how you can think this is great, is beyond me. Perhaps if they was white middle aged men, you'd have a different opinion, Adz?

This asylum seeker issue isn't going to go away just because of Brexit, either. I can never understand how someone or people can be so hateful to people when they don't know what about their circumstances. Dreadful.

[BigAdz]

When I argue with people on here I tend to try and talk about what they have actually said, not what I hope they meant.

Where have I said stop asylum seekers Aaron?

Where have I said it's a great?

Or have I actually said, they get quite a good deal when we have our own homeless to think about, who don't get a guaranteed home or debit cards loaded with cash or free prescriptions?

Or is that a hateful thing to consider?

What a hateful man I am to think of suffering British people first.....


Or maybe I could put the Aaron spin on it and call you a hateful disgrace, for considering the needs of an asylum seeker whose history maybe unknown, or murky, or they have come from say, Algeria, or Morocco, which are perfectly safe, before the ex forces guy living on the street, because of circumstances beyond his control?

But I won't do that because you haven't actually said that either.

[aaron1867]

When I argue with people on here I tend to try and talk about what they have actually said, not what I hope they meant.

Where have I said stop asylum seekers Aaron?

Where have I said it's a great?

Or have I actually said, they get quite a good deal when we have our own homeless to think about, who don't get a guaranteed home or debit cards loaded with cash or free prescriptions?

Or is that a hateful thing to consider?

What a hateful man I am to think of suffering British people first.....


Or maybe I could put the Aaron spin on it and call you a hateful disgrace, for considering the needs of an asylum seeker whose history maybe unknown, or murky, or they have come from say, Algeria, or Morocco, which are perfectly safe, before the ex forces guy living on the street, because of circumstances beyond his control?

But I won't do that because you haven't actually said that either.

You know exactly what you meant by posting what you did. You just live up to the typical brexiteer.

If everyone had the same attitude to you, that think to forget about everyone else, I wouldn't like to think what the world would be like. And one again, you've made a simplistic argument of 'putting British people first', you actually think loads of British people are going to be more well off if we didn't help asylum seekers? Then again, some brexiteers did vote for that big red bus..........

[RED-DOG]

Another genuine question. (I'm such an innocent in these matters)

Don't Homeless people have the same accommodation entitlements as everyone else?

[MANTIS01]

Can somebody post a link to the source of information that shows us what a ‘typical berxiteer’ is? Cheers.

[Pokerpops]

I get disappointed when accusations of xenophobia start flying around because it's really a logistical issue which deserves serious attention. This week we saw on the telly news how many folk simply cannot get a doctor's appointment and I must say that I've been trying to access a GP for 2 weeks myself only to be told there aren't any appointments. We know there's an aging population issue, we know there aren't enough hospital beds, there's a very real housing crisis, lots of my friends can't get preferred school places. On top of that I find driving anywhere ridiculous, always total gridlock on the M25 & M6. The list is endless and it's a problem we need to deal with or quality of life will diminish rapidly.

So under this freedom of movement system how many new schools and hospitals have been built? How many new roads and railway lines? How many more GP's have been recruited? I'm well aware that migration is a positive for our country's GP...so how much has been spent on social infrastructure? What's more let's say we stay in the EU and the organisation allow Turkey to join or another country. Let's say a million more economic migrants arrive in the space of a year. Are we able to cope? What are the plans to accommodate? It's all very well just bleating xenophobia. But what is the concrete plan that mitigates the risk of such freedom? Sure thing exiting the EU will dink our economy by a few % but what's the wider picture in terms of quality of life when control is within our own hands? Why is having control of our own borders such a bad idea? I'm sure it's a genuine and valid concern for a lot of ordinary folk who still enjoy our multicultural society.

From GOV. UK

What you can expect to get as an Asylum Seeker. Not a bad deal eh....Not really surprising why so many want this changed. We often don't treat our own people this well.


Asylum support
Contents
Overview
What you'll get
Eligibility
How to claim
Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support
You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.

Your situation   Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother   £3
Baby under 1 year old   £5
Child aged 1 to 3   £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.

Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

This post just sums you & Brexiteers up. Picking on Asylum seekers once again, just because the hateful Katie Hopkins has done a video. You definitely live up to the hateful brexit voter Adz.

These asylum seekers aren't going to be living it up in Mayfair, they aren't getting hundreds of pounds a week. They are instead going to be in basic accom with £35/week, how you can think this is great, is beyond me. Perhaps if they was white middle aged men, you'd have a different opinion, Adz?

This asylum seeker issue isn't going to go away just because of Brexit, either. I can never understand how someone or people can be so hateful to people when they don't know what about their circumstances. Dreadful.

Aaron, please don’t tar all Leave voters with the same stick.

[BigAdz]

When I argue with people on here I tend to try and talk about what they have actually said, not what I hope they meant.

Where have I said stop asylum seekers Aaron?

Where have I said it's a great?

Or have I actually said, they get quite a good deal when we have our own homeless to think about, who don't get a guaranteed home or debit cards loaded with cash or free prescriptions?

Or is that a hateful thing to consider?

What a hateful man I am to think of suffering British people first.....


Or maybe I could put the Aaron spin on it and call you a hateful disgrace, for considering the needs of an asylum seeker whose history maybe unknown, or murky, or they have come from say, Algeria, or Morocco, which are perfectly safe, before the ex forces guy living on the street, because of circumstances beyond his control?

But I won't do that because you haven't actually said that either.

You know exactly what you meant by posting what you did. You just live up to the typical brexiteer.

If everyone had the same attitude to you, that think to forget about everyone else, I wouldn't like to think what the world would be like. And one again, you've made a simplistic argument of 'putting British people first', you actually think loads of British people are going to be more well off if we didn't help asylum seekers? Then again, some brexiteers did vote for that big red bus..........

So now Aaron knows what I MEANT to write and what he thinks I THOUGHT.


I have deleted what I wrote next.

Maybe he should be Prime Minister if he knows so much.


The irony here is that some of you are way, way worse than me. All I am doing is saying where I feel we should draw the line. The stalkers are DESPERATE to find reason to find reasons to call me a racist, evil, even compare me to Hitler, when I am none of those things and actually ignoring what I have actually said in an effort to name call.


Carry on chaps

[Mark_Porter]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.