The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[RED-DOG]

From what I read, I would say so.

However, I haven't been round the entire uk to add first hand credence to the fact, if that's what you are asking.

Of course I'm not asking that, but since you brought it up, have you been round the entire UK to add first hand credence to the other facts you quoted in that post?

It was a genuine question, your tone wasn't necessary.

Not sure I quoted any facts. "from what i have read" is hardly quoting facts is it. Or do you mean the former post?

Are you honestly telling me you don't know/have not heard of/or read about a case of immigration where the individual has no skills, doesn't show any interest in learning our language and has no job(or looks like wanting a job, but is happy to take all the system throws at them?

I don't believe you lead that sheltered an existence Tom.

I know of four in my home town. I don't know their names, for that I apologise, but its not made up, if that's your concern. Not many granted, but they are people who are in the public knowledge locally. I am sure there are plenty more.


No tone intended, but heck, right back at ya!

I think we have danced this dance already.

Mark didn't source books/tv or articles with his life experience, yet you don't pick him up on it. Do you believe him and not me, or are you just trying your best to single me out for your treatment?

I didn't disagree with Mark.

Single you out for my treatment? WTF are you on about?

I'm having a debate on a public forum. I "Single you out" as you put it because I sometimes don't agree with you or I don't understand and need clarification.

AFAIK I have never been rude to you or called you any names, if I'm wrong please point it out and I will gladly apologise.

[nirvana]

From what I read, I would say so.

However, I haven't been round the entire uk to add first hand credence to the fact, if that's what you are asking.

Of course I'm not asking that, but since you brought it up, have you been round the entire UK to add first hand credence to the other facts you quoted in that post?

It was a genuine question, your tone wasn't necessary.

Not sure I quoted any facts. "from what i have read" is hardly quoting facts is it. Or do you mean the former post?

Are you honestly telling me you don't know/have not heard of/or read about a case of immigration where the individual has no skills, doesn't show any interest in learning our language and has no job(or looks like wanting a job, but is happy to take all the system throws at them?

I don't believe you lead that sheltered an existence Tom.

I know of four in my home town. I don't know their names, for that I apologise, but its not made up, if that's your concern. Not many granted, but they are people who are in the public knowledge locally. I am sure there are plenty more.


No tone intended, but heck, right back at ya!

I think we have danced this dance already.

Mark didn't source books/tv or articles with his life experience, yet you don't pick him up on it. Do you believe him and not me, or are you just trying your best to single me out for your treatment?

TBF. It was me that said you rely a lot on anecdotes, mostly negative, but also agreed with you when you said it was a high bar and expectation that you should source your points. Why should you ?

You are a complete drama queen though and have a siege mentality on par with Alex ferguson

[Marky147]

He's still pissed off, because they'd run out of tampons at football before he could get his

[horseplayer]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

4/9 remain 13/8 leave at betarb.com for Tal.

900 to win 400 please arb

[horseplayer]

Think the post about gp waiting times is a fair one. I have lived in three areas in the last 12 months for whatever reason, one would have a few immigrants/refuges however you want to title them, one would have more than  a few and the current area none or very few (that I have seen anyway)

All three it is impossible to get an appointment. Think the difficulties there are the number of GP's quitting or selling surgeries and the emergence of one health centre in an area rather than 3 or 4 smaller surgeries.

[RED-DOG]

I live in a small village, no immigrants, no refugees, seemingly nothing has changed here for the last 50 years. We still can't get a Doctors appointment.

[BigAdz]

From what I read, I would say so.

However, I haven't been round the entire uk to add first hand credence to the fact, if that's what you are asking.

Of course I'm not asking that, but since you brought it up, have you been round the entire UK to add first hand credence to the other facts you quoted in that post?

It was a genuine question, your tone wasn't necessary.

Not sure I quoted any facts. "from what i have read" is hardly quoting facts is it. Or do you mean the former post?

Are you honestly telling me you don't know/have not heard of/or read about a case of immigration where the individual has no skills, doesn't show any interest in learning our language and has no job(or looks like wanting a job, but is happy to take all the system throws at them?

I don't believe you lead that sheltered an existence Tom.

I know of four in my home town. I don't know their names, for that I apologise, but its not made up, if that's your concern. Not many granted, but they are people who are in the public knowledge locally. I am sure there are plenty more.


No tone intended, but heck, right back at ya!

I think we have danced this dance already.

Mark didn't source books/tv or articles with his life experience, yet you don't pick him up on it. Do you believe him and not me, or are you just trying your best to single me out for your treatment?

TBF. It was me that said you rely a lot on anecdotes, mostly negative, but also agreed with you when you said it was a high bar and expectation that you should source your points. Why should you ?

You are a complete drama queen though and have a siege mentality on par with Alex ferguson

I could just sit here and ignore all the backlash(sorry, drama queen word), but where would the fun in that be? On the other hand, your views don't seem to rile several people all at once the way mine do, so until you have a militia of snipers on your case, you wouldn't know how you would react. I am quite comfortable with my views. They won't change because half a dozen people I have never met want to twist my words to make a bit of sport or vent their spleen. It's all fine, but please don't expect to get a free ride in return.

We have gone so far off track the last couple of days, I have forgotten what some peoples views are on Brexit, but at least we got the thread pumping again.

FWIW, If I am as good at my role as Fergie was at his, that's fine by me.

[RED-DOG]

From what I read, I would say so.

However, I haven't been round the entire uk to add first hand credence to the fact, if that's what you are asking.

Of course I'm not asking that, but since you brought it up, have you been round the entire UK to add first hand credence to the other facts you quoted in that post?

It was a genuine question, your tone wasn't necessary.

Not sure I quoted any facts. "from what i have read" is hardly quoting facts is it. Or do you mean the former post?

Are you honestly telling me you don't know/have not heard of/or read about a case of immigration where the individual has no skills, doesn't show any interest in learning our language and has no job(or looks like wanting a job, but is happy to take all the system throws at them?

I don't believe you lead that sheltered an existence Tom.

I know of four in my home town. I don't know their names, for that I apologise, but its not made up, if that's your concern. Not many granted, but they are people who are in the public knowledge locally. I am sure there are plenty more.


No tone intended, but heck, right back at ya!

I think we have danced this dance already.

Mark didn't source books/tv or articles with his life experience, yet you don't pick him up on it. Do you believe him and not me, or are you just trying your best to single me out for your treatment?

TBF. It was me that said you rely a lot on anecdotes, mostly negative, but also agreed with you when you said it was a high bar and expectation that you should source your points. Why should you ?

You are a complete drama queen though and have a siege mentality on par with Alex ferguson

I could just sit here and ignore all the backlash(sorry, drama queen word), but where would the fun in that be? On the other hand, your views don't seem to rile several people all at once the way mine do, so until you have a militia of snipers on your case, you wouldn't know how you would react. I am quite comfortable with my views. They won't change because half a dozen people I have never met want to twist my words to make a bit of sport or vent their spleen. It's all fine, but please don't expect to get a free ride in return.

We have gone so far off track the last couple of days, I have forgotten what some peoples views are on Brexit, but at least we got the thread pumping again.

FWIW, If I am as good at my role as Fergie was at his, that's fine by me.

Click to see full-size image.

[DungBeetle]

I live in a small village, no immigrants, no refugees, seemingly nothing has changed here for the last 50 years. We still can't get a Doctors appointment.

It has nothing to do with immigrants.  GPS are lazy admin jockeys and their support staff 10 times worse.  £100 for a private mercenary is money well spent.  You get seen at 10 minutes notice and can over rule diagnosis if required based off something I’ve read on the internet.  

[MintTrav]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

Thanks.

Is it tiny numbers? I genuinely don't know and what defines tiny(I do have a working example, I'm told!).

As Mark points out, the theme he talks of is a growing one and becoming more widespread, and eventually those that do feel safe in their leafy suburbs will have people on THEIR doorsteps who make no attempt to integrate, speak in a foreign language, and perhaps make you feel uncomfortable in a place you have always felt safe.

I am not saying there is any reason to be fearful, but even as a strong enough bloke walking through my own town, at times when I pass by groups like Mark has described, I feel an edge that I never do otherwise.

When I feel this way, should I just suck it up, or speak up?

I had the opposite experience a while ago. I was on my own in a train carriage when four young people (early twenties) got on, three guys and a girl. It didn't mean much, but I was aware of their presence. Then they spoke to each other and I realised they weren't English. Without having thought it through, I noticed that I had relaxed and had sub-consciously thought "Oh, it's ok - they're foreign."

[DungBeetle]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

Thanks.

Is it tiny numbers? I genuinely don't know and what defines tiny(I do have a working example, I'm told!).

As Mark points out, the theme he talks of is a growing one and becoming more widespread, and eventually those that do feel safe in their leafy suburbs will have people on THEIR doorsteps who make no attempt to integrate, speak in a foreign language, and perhaps make you feel uncomfortable in a place you have always felt safe.

I am not saying there is any reason to be fearful, but even as a strong enough bloke walking through my own town, at times when I pass by groups like Mark has described, I feel an edge that I never do otherwise.

When I feel this way, should I just suck it up, or speak up?

I had the opposite experience a while ago. I was on my own in a train carriage when four young people (early twenties) got on, three guys and a girl. It didn't mean much, but I was aware of their presence. Then they spoke to each other and I realised they weren't English. Without having thought it through, I noticed that I had relaxed and had sub-consciously thought "Oh, it's ok - they're foreign."

Yeah I’m the same thinking about it.

[nirvana]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

Thanks.

Is it tiny numbers? I genuinely don't know and what defines tiny(I do have a working example, I'm told!).

As Mark points out, the theme he talks of is a growing one and becoming more widespread, and eventually those that do feel safe in their leafy suburbs will have people on THEIR doorsteps who make no attempt to integrate, speak in a foreign language, and perhaps make you feel uncomfortable in a place you have always felt safe.

I am not saying there is any reason to be fearful, but even as a strong enough bloke walking through my own town, at times when I pass by groups like Mark has described, I feel an edge that I never do otherwise.

When I feel this way, should I just suck it up, or speak up?

I had the opposite experience a while ago. I was on my own in a train carriage when four young people (early twenties) got on, three guys and a girl. It didn't mean much, but I was aware of their presence. Then they spoke to each other and I realised they weren't English. Without having thought it through, I noticed that I had relaxed and had sub-consciously thought "Oh, it's ok - they're foreign."

Yeah I’m the same thinking about it.

Really interesting this, I'd feel the same in 90% (ok, the majority, I don't know the exact number) of cases. In the 10% where I felt as intimidated by a foreign group as I would by a young, mainly male, English group i'd have to think there were other factors about the specific group that triggered my being alert/suspicious

[RickBFA]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/roma-tire-shouldering-blame-boiling-pot-communities

I know it’s a complex issue but immigration is changing our country sometimes for the better but sometimes for the worse.

Certain parts of Sheffield have become almost no go areas with constant running battles between the Pakistani and Eastern European Roma communities.

Here is a Guardian article about it.

My wife’s friend lives there and won’t leave her house in darkness any more. Large groups of young lads with no fear of authority mean mob rule wins over any normal authority like the police.

It really is a horrific situation there.

[MANTIS01]

So nobody can get a doctors appointment?

Even with the freedom of all Euro medics to come and go as suits

Even with all the Euro folk swelling UK coffers

Might be time to think again and change our situation right?

Being part of the EU doesn’t benefit us enough to provide basic stuff like access to a GP.

Hey when there’s less food perhaps obesity reduces and with less money floating around folk might cut out fags/booze

Healthier people, more appointments, winner winner

[aaron1867]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.

Very eloquently put Mark.

Maybe I put my point across more directly, but this has been my angle since my very first contribution to the thread, but as Woodsey says, it won't be long before someone calls you out as a Nazi, or suggests that you have deep seated racists views for making such comments.

Mark has wrote a post that is completely genuine, and definitely a good reason why to vote for Brexit. Whilst Adz has just copied and pasted something about the asylum seekers, something that was made public by Katie Hopkins & ultimately overshared on Facebook. If life is so good as an asylum seeker, then perhaps you try life in basic accom and £5/week.

And btw, I didn't mean to tar all people with the same brush regarding Brexit voters, but there is a general opinion that some people voted for Brexit are hateful and racist. I know full well that people have genuinely good reasons and brexit positively affects them, fair play to them. But this asylum seeker thing is just a joke, it has nothing to do with Brexit.