The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[ripple11]

........and how come, as soon as they get off their inflatable boat they get a full medcal assesment?. Normal wait for a doctor's appointment is 2 weeks 

[Woodsey]

Just booked a weekend away in Lisbon the weekend of 29th March 

Will I make it out and back? 

[nirvana]

I get disappointed when accusations of xenophobia start flying around because it's really a logistical issue which deserves serious attention. This week we saw on the telly news how many folk simply cannot get a doctor's appointment and I must say that I've been trying to access a GP for 2 weeks myself only to be told there aren't any appointments. We know there's an aging population issue, we know there aren't enough hospital beds, there's a very real housing crisis, lots of my friends can't get preferred school places. On top of that I find driving anywhere ridiculous, always total gridlock on the M25 & M6. The list is endless and it's a problem we need to deal with or quality of life will diminish rapidly.

So under this freedom of movement system how many new schools and hospitals have been built? How many new roads and railway lines? How many more GP's have been recruited? I'm well aware that migration is a positive for our country's GP...so how much has been spent on social infrastructure? What's more let's say we stay in the EU and the organisation allow Turkey to join or another country. Let's say a million more economic migrants arrive in the space of a year. Are we able to cope? What are the plans to accommodate? It's all very well just bleating xenophobia. But what is the concrete plan that mitigates the risk of such freedom? Sure thing exiting the EU will dink our economy by a few % but what's the wider picture in terms of quality of life when control is within our own hands? Why is having control of our own borders such a bad idea? I'm sure it's a genuine and valid concern for a lot of ordinary folk who still enjoy our multicultural society.

From GOV. UK

What you can expect to get as an Asylum Seeker. Not a bad deal eh....Not really surprising why so many want this changed. We often don't treat our own people this well.


Asylum support
Contents
Overview
What you'll get
Eligibility
How to claim
Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support
You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.

Your situation   Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother   £3
Baby under 1 year old   £5
Child aged 1 to 3   £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.

Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

Genuinely can't see what's bad about this - to me it sounds like the kind of country I would want us to be when dealing with asylum seekers.

[Longines]

Not a bad deal eh....We often don't treat our own people this well.

Which of our own people do we treat less well than £37.75 a week? Even JSA for under 25s is £57 a week.

Pop quiz: we stop paying all asylum seekers anything at all. To the nearest unit, how long can we fund the NHS with the savings?

a) a year
b) a month
c) a week
d) a day
e) an hour
f) a minute?

[horseplayer]

g) ten seconds is correct

[Marky147]

Adzolf is on form today 

[Marky147]

Just booked a weekend away in Lisbon the weekend of 29th March 

Will I make it out and back? 

Would have thought you're due a Thai/Phillipines jaunt by March?

[Pokerpops]

I get disappointed when accusations of xenophobia start flying around because it's really a logistical issue which deserves serious attention. This week we saw on the telly news how many folk simply cannot get a doctor's appointment and I must say that I've been trying to access a GP for 2 weeks myself only to be told there aren't any appointments. We know there's an aging population issue, we know there aren't enough hospital beds, there's a very real housing crisis, lots of my friends can't get preferred school places. On top of that I find driving anywhere ridiculous, always total gridlock on the M25 & M6. The list is endless and it's a problem we need to deal with or quality of life will diminish rapidly.

So under this freedom of movement system how many new schools and hospitals have been built? How many new roads and railway lines? How many more GP's have been recruited? I'm well aware that migration is a positive for our country's GP...so how much has been spent on social infrastructure? What's more let's say we stay in the EU and the organisation allow Turkey to join or another country. Let's say a million more economic migrants arrive in the space of a year. Are we able to cope? What are the plans to accommodate? It's all very well just bleating xenophobia. But what is the concrete plan that mitigates the risk of such freedom? Sure thing exiting the EU will dink our economy by a few % but what's the wider picture in terms of quality of life when control is within our own hands? Why is having control of our own borders such a bad idea? I'm sure it's a genuine and valid concern for a lot of ordinary folk who still enjoy our multicultural society.

From GOV. UK

What you can expect to get as an Asylum Seeker. Not a bad deal eh....Not really surprising why so many want this changed. We often don't treat our own people this well.


Asylum support
Contents
Overview
What you'll get
Eligibility
How to claim
Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support
You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.

Your situation   Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother   £3
Baby under 1 year old   £5
Child aged 1 to 3   £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.

Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.

Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

Genuinely can't see what's bad about this - to me it sounds like the kind of country I would want us to be when dealing with asylum seekers.

 

[BigAdz]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

[nirvana]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

One of the issues you have here is you lay out a series of facts from the Government website but then you explain why you don't like the facts based on anecdotes about mansions, tidy hotels and ordinary folk.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous - maybe people should be able to opt out of contributing to the NHS transplant service so that the beneficiaries of transplants have to pay more to make up the shortfall.

[Woodsey]

Just booked a weekend away in Lisbon the weekend of 29th March 

Will I make it out and back? 

Would have thought you're due a Thai/Phillipines jaunt by March?

Only been back a couple of weeks. Skint at the moment as Japan world cup is going to clean me out!

[BigAdz]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

One of the issues you have here is you lay out a series of facts from the Government website but then you explain why you don't like the facts based on anecdotes about mansions, tidy hotels and ordinary folk.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous - maybe people should be able to opt out of contributing to the NHS transplant service so that the beneficiaries of transplants have to pay more to make up the shortfall.

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...


And how, pray, else am I to explain the reason for my opinions? A bit like Pokergrumps, am I supposed to record interviews with friends, dig up the Jamaican family that lived in the London hotel for a couple of years, or do you want me to search for hours for the actual article, because I really don't feel the need to go that far to justify an opinion?

[RED-DOG]

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...

I wonder how long it will be before the likes of Dianne Abbot, Donald Trump etc discover this tactic?

[nirvana]

I don't disagree, with areas of it, or more caveats and clear guidelines that this is only for a few weeks etc. How many see this and think its the ticket to a new life of relative luxury, hence the trip?


Not sure that this is terribly fair, when thousands on the streets aren't given the same

Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

We have all read about the stories of immigrant families in London been left in mansions or very tidy hotels for years at a time. Pretty sure the ones in my mind weren't from a worn torn country either...Hmmm.


Can think of many ordinary folk I know wouldn't think much of this either

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses


Maybe we could have another look at the system, and have an opt in or opt out box. I wonder how many of the liberal lot on here would be happy to keep paying then, or an increased proportion to make up the shortfall for those that opt out?

One of the issues you have here is you lay out a series of facts from the Government website but then you explain why you don't like the facts based on anecdotes about mansions, tidy hotels and ordinary folk.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous - maybe people should be able to opt out of contributing to the NHS transplant service so that the beneficiaries of transplants have to pay more to make up the shortfall.

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...


And how, pray, else am I to explain the reason for my opinions? A bit like Pokergrumps, am I supposed to record interviews with friends, dig up the Jamaican family that lived in the London hotel for a couple of years, or do you want me to search for hours for the actual article, because I really don't feel the need to go that far to justify an opinion?

I think you should say whatever you want to say and make your case, points or whatever in any way you want.

You have a fair point on digging up evidence - I don't believe you would make something up about a Jamaican family in a hotel and happy to take your word for it. On the other hand it doesn't make a lot of sense , to me, to draw many conclusions from a few cases - especially as they will tend to be the extreme examples of something not working as it was intended.

Mind you, even if you could show me 20 cases, 30 cases, 1000 cases, it wouldn't be enough to persuade me that we should be less generous. You could easily persuade me that we should try hard to ensure no one in the country gets treated worse though

[BigAdz]

Of course its ridiculous.

Have to say as one of the "intelligent" ones, if you thought that was a genuine proposal, maybe I was wrong...

I wonder how long it will be before the likes of Dianne Abbot, Donald Trump etc discover this tactic?

Lol. I gave up on you long ago!