The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Woodsey]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.

You need to be careful with that kind of racist talk in these parts!  

[BigAdz]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.

Very eloquently put Mark.

Maybe I put my point across more directly, but this has been my angle since my very first contribution to the thread, but as Woodsey says, it won't be long before someone calls you out as a Nazi, or suggests that you have deep seated racists views for making such comments.

[Mark_Porter]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.

One thing I should add is that lack of integration is a big issue and is the fault of both sides.

I don't know how it is solved but the "them & us" culture that springs up with Polish shops, polish cafes, polish restaurants, polish church services, etc. etc. The same is true on the flip side when the Brits turn their noses up when Polish people come into their fancy coffee shop or their "traditionally English" hairdressers or pubs.

Resentment festers through lack of understanding and then we start placing blame where it is not relevant. I.e. not all crime is because of migrants, not all homelessness is caused by migrants.

The point I was trying to make was that not everyone that voted leave and wants some immigration controls is a raving racist. My mum is bezzie mates with the indian man over the road and regularly has him over for a cup of tea and a slice of sponge! :-)

[Tal]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

[RED-DOG]

The small sea side town of Bognor Regis. My parents have lived here for the majority of their lives, it is a strong Brexit area versus Brighton, just 30 miles up the road which is a strong Remain area.

My parents (60 & 70) voted for Brexit and, like many in this area, immigration was the driver.

In the last 10-15 years, Bognor has become home to a large eastern European community. In some areas, more than 25% of the residents now speak an Eastern European language as their first. The town centre now has more than 10 food stores that specifically cater to European nationals. The local church now runs a mass on a Sunday in Polish as well as English. Etc. etc.

My parents fall into an older age group that lived in a time when their little seaside town looked very different. They are retired and economically “safe”. I suspect they would talk about “British Values” being a big driver. Even ignoring that, the rise in immigration directly to Bognor has brought with it lots of issues. The infrastructure has not coped – GP surgeries are full and not taking any more patients. Waiting times are 4 weeks. I recently moved close to the area and cannot find a dentist as they are all full. The roads are atrocious. Unfortunately Bognor town centre has become increasingly run down (not the fault of migrants) but it is now an intimidating place to be and crime has increased. Many of the residents now spend their time hanging around the streets – I don’t feel safe walking through there anymore. There are also a considerable number of homeless people due to accommodation issues and shelters have been opened so they have somewhere to sleep.

It is a popular place to move to as there are lots of jobs (picking in the fields, manual labour etc.)

I can understand, from my parents point of view, why they voted for Brexit. A small town that they have invested their money into for the majority of their life has shifted dramatically in the last decade. It is hard to argue that this shift has not, in part, been caused by unchecked immigration whilst the local government has not been able to improve local services in line with this.

That's a good fair post Mark.

By the way. I think Woodsey uses the term "Racist" more than anyone else on the forum, usually in anticipation of what he thinks other people might think.

[nirvana]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

[arbboy]

Wish we could swop a few thousand eastern european 'dole cheat' girls for the uk Jezza kyle watching equivalents pushing their prams around the town eating McDonalds.  Much easier on the eye.

[BigAdz]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

Thanks.

Is it tiny numbers? I genuinely don't know and what defines tiny(I do have a working example, I'm told!).

As Mark points out, the theme he talks of is a growing one and becoming more widespread, and eventually those that do feel safe in their leafy suburbs will have people on THEIR doorsteps who make no attempt to integrate, speak in a foreign language, and perhaps make you feel uncomfortable in a place you have always felt safe.

I am not saying there is any reason to be fearful, but even as a strong enough bloke walking through my own town, at times when I pass by groups like Mark has described, I feel an edge that I never do otherwise.

When I feel this way, should I just suck it up, or speak up?

[BigAdz]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

[arbboy]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

4/9 remain 13/8 leave at betarb.com for Tal.

[RED-DOG]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

Are you confusing disrespect with disagree?

You make it sound as if almost everyone on here has insulted you.

[BigAdz]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

Are you confusing disrespect with disagree?

You make it sound as if almost everyone on here has insulted you.

No Tom, I am on about people saying I am a disgrace and a racist, or generally picking up on everything I say with a two line innuendo that what I have said is wrong or stupid.....

[nirvana]

Yeah but marks post is a rational explanation of why people feel like they do and voted to leave. It also deals with the general thread theme of Brexit (currently) and unfettered EU migration. It is not remotely racist or bigoted.

Adz posted about asylum seekers and how they're having it off..I'm glad to have him post this stuff and although I don't know if he's racist..the general tone is narrow minded and unthinking and is a narrative that is aimed to make people feel threatened by the tiny numbers who come into the country this way. It's a bigoted kind of viewpoint even if he's not a bigot

Thanks.

Is it tiny numbers? I genuinely don't know and what defines tiny(I do have a working example, I'm told!).

As Mark points out, the theme he talks of is a growing one and becoming more widespread, and eventually those that do feel safe in their leafy suburbs will have people on THEIR doorsteps who make no attempt to integrate, speak in a foreign language, and perhaps make you feel uncomfortable in a place you have always felt safe.

I am not saying there is any reason to be fearful, but even as a strong enough bloke walking through my own town, at times when I pass by groups like Mark has described, I feel an edge that I never do otherwise.

When I feel this way, should I just suck it up, or speak up?

You should speak up of course. I'm happy giving my view and I'm happy you or anyone else giving theirs

[RED-DOG]

Adz, I am pleased that you post your views on this thread. It's good to have balance and I know lots of people who share your views. I don't think they're racist either. Some staunch Tories. Some who'd sooner die than vote Tory. All of them, to a man, would stop to help anyone in trouble, whoever they were.

I also know people who voted remain who annoy the heck out of me for their ignorance of the reality of how people in other areas feel.

It's too easy to simplify and that tends naturally to invite contempt. This is a remarkably healthy thread for discussion and long may it continue.

Thanks Tal.

Your reply tells me nothing about your view, but that you are at least respectful of others. A pleasant change on here.

Are you confusing disrespect with disagree?

You make it sound as if almost everyone on here has insulted you.

No Tom, I am on about people saying I am a disgrace and a racist, or generally picking up on everything I say with a two line innuendo that what I have said is wrong or stupid.....

IFAIK there is perhaps one person who has said you are a disgrace and a racist.

Others, including myself pick up on some things you say with a one, two or multi line reply which implies or states categorically that you are wrong. That's called disagreeing, not disrespecting.

If you want to talk specifics instead of vague "Some people" accusations, name names, quote posts. I for one will gladly debate in a civil fashion.

[BigAdz]

From what I read, I would say so.

However, I haven't been round the entire uk to add first hand credence to the fact, if that's what you are asking.

Of course I'm not asking that, but since you brought it up, have you been round the entire UK to add first hand credence to the other facts you quoted in that post?

It was a genuine question, your tone wasn't necessary.

Not sure I quoted any facts. "from what i have read" is hardly quoting facts is it. Or do you mean the former post?

Are you honestly telling me you don't know/have not heard of/or read about a case of immigration where the individual has no skills, doesn't show any interest in learning our language and has no job(or looks like wanting a job, but is happy to take all the system throws at them?

I don't believe you lead that sheltered an existence Tom.

I know of four in my home town. I don't know their names, for that I apologise, but its not made up, if that's your concern. Not many granted, but they are people who are in the public knowledge locally. I am sure there are plenty more.


No tone intended, but heck, right back at ya!

I think we have danced this dance already.

Mark didn't source books/tv or articles with his life experience, yet you don't pick him up on it. Do you believe him and not me, or are you just trying your best to single me out for your treatment?