The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

:-) That cartoon wins the internet for today.

[MANTIS01]

People are getting hung up on what Leave supporters voted for. They didn't know what they were doing. Didn't grasp the complexity of the situation and long term damage.

Let's put it in these simple factual terms.

Leave voters had concerns. They voted for change.

Hopefully Remain can see the problem with saying Leave didn't understand they had concerns, they didn't know they wanted change.

More hopefully still Remain can grasp the complexity of the situation and long term damage when peoples vote for change and no change is forthcoming.  

The problem with ‘Leave’ is that it means different things to different people.  
The problem with ‘Change’ is that it is even more vague than ‘Leave’.

I agree that we can’t identity what change means to everybody but we can confidently assume it doesn’t mean remain the same.

[MintTrav]

People are getting hung up on what Leave supporters voted for. They didn't know what they were doing. Didn't grasp the complexity of the situation and long term damage.

Let's put it in these simple factual terms.

Leave voters had concerns. They voted for change.

Hopefully Remain can see the problem with saying Leave didn't understand they had concerns, they didn't know they wanted change.

More hopefully still Remain can grasp the complexity of the situation and long term damage when peoples vote for change and no change is forthcoming.  

The problem with ‘Leave’ is that it means different things to different people.  
The problem with ‘Change’ is that it is even more vague than ‘Leave’.

I agree that we can’t identity what change means to everybody but we can confidently assume it doesn’t mean remain the same.

That's a meaningless statement. We could have a referendum on whether there should be change and you'll get 100% in favour, and it would be as meaningless as the Leave vote, as you haven't specified what 'change' means. When we had a referendum on replacing FPTP with PR, there were numerous PR options, just like there are many Leave options. What happened? The government chose one option and gave the public the choice between that or the status quo. Unfortunately they selected the worst version of PR in an attempt to undermine the referendum, but at least everyone knew what they were voting on and the consequences of it. The 2016 referendum was a joke, so poorly framed as Leave or Remain when it was obvious that Leave meant many things, some of them contradictory, and that people who wanted Leave would not be able to agree on what they did want.

[MANTIS01]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

[aaron1867]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

[MANTIS01]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

[aaron1867]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

Doesn’t surprise me you was playing a daffodil, they do tend to put the hateful and unintelligent behind the scenes. Did you shout any racist abuse as the daffodil?

[nirvana]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

Doesn’t surprise me you was playing a daffodil, they do tend to put the hateful and unintelligent behind the scenes. Did you shout any racist abuse as the daffodil?

Mantis wrote something quite funny and you respond like this ? Depressing

[MANTIS01]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

Doesn’t surprise me you was playing a daffodil, they do tend to put the hateful and unintelligent behind the scenes. Did you shout any racist abuse as the daffodil?

I wasn’t behind the scenes to begin with because I was originally cast as the lead munchkin. I had to come skipping onto stage leading all the other munchkins. At the 11th hour after weeks of rehearsals Miss Mannering decided I couldn’t skip and made me a daffodil. Still feel the pain tbf.

[BigAdz]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

Doesn’t surprise me you was playing a daffodil, they do tend to put the hateful and unintelligent behind the scenes. Did you shout any racist abuse as the daffodil?

Wow. What a jerk off u r

[kukushkin88]

Again I would agree that if the referendum question was whether people wanted change/reform 100% would be in favour

Hence why the suggestion to just remain as before is such a ridiculous notion

It isn't a ridiculous motion - People now have a much clearer choice. The only reason leavers don't want it is because they believe they would lose the vote.

As for your earlier comments on people wanting change, of course people voted for change, but there is so many changes that won't happen. All the whole, you and others are too embarrassed to admit that people voted for half of the stuff I listed.

I couldn’t care less who won another vote and the last time I was embarrassed I was playing a daffodil in school assembly at about 6yrs old

Doesn’t surprise me you was playing a daffodil, they do tend to put the hateful and unintelligent behind the scenes. Did you shout any racist abuse as the daffodil?

Wow. What a jerk off u r

While it’s a shame if anyone’s upset, this is 😂 funny.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Plenty of praise this weekend for Peter Oborne's article.  Not quite what you'd expect from a Daily Mail political correspondent, albeit he's writing here in a personal capacity:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/

[nirvana]

Plenty of praise this weekend for Peter Oborne's article.  Not quite what you'd expect from a Daily Mail political correspondent, albeit he's writing here in a personal capacity:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/

Understandably getting plenty of applause from remainers. Maybe the quality of the arguments matters less than the fact that people do indeed change their minds, whatever their reasons

[nirvana]

Out of. Interest. Does anyone still reading this think Brexit will happen? Perhaps it's counterintuitive but I think the only route now is a second ref.

[Longines]

Out of. Interest. Does anyone still reading this think Brexit will happen? Perhaps it's counterintuitive but I think the only route now is a second ref.

Define Brexit.

I think at some point in the next three years we will no longer be a full member state of the EU.