blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 21, 2021, 10:17:26 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2259960 Posts in 66603 Topics by 16869 Members
Latest Member: HughOlssen
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Community Forums
| |-+  The Lounge
| | |-+  The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 56

Pages: 1 ... 1135 1136 1137 1138 [1139] 1140 1141 1142 1143 ... 1529 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1328543 times)
Sheriff Fatman
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6076



View Profile
« Reply #17070 on: April 03, 2019, 07:07:35 PM »

Going back to the earlier discussion regarding John Bercow's performance as Speaker, it's worth highlighting him making a casting vote tonight against further indicative votes.  Based on perceptions of where his opinion lies it would be easy to expect him to vote in favour of this, but he cited precedent of not allowing major decisions to be made in the absence of a majority in casting his vote with the Noes.

Easily overlooked, as it was a perfect opportunity to be centre of attention again and create much controversy, which we know he can be partial to.  If he'd had voted based on his own preference I'm sure he'd have voted Aye.
Logged

"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine

2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)

GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
MintTrav
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3396


View Profile
« Reply #17071 on: April 03, 2019, 08:42:51 PM »

 Click to see full-size image.
Logged
aaron1867
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3659



View Profile
« Reply #17072 on: April 03, 2019, 11:25:55 PM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

I’d say it’s you that remains clueless to it all, if you genuinely believe that some leave voters didn’t vote because of the reasons I’ve cited. You take all those out of the result & we would have stayed in the EU.
Logged
RickBFA
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1988


View Profile
« Reply #17073 on: April 04, 2019, 07:11:13 AM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/amp/

Here’s another dodgy right wing poll on the UK public’s opinion on immigration in 2018 (Channel 4 News poll).

The majority of the public, around 75%, (including remain voters) backed a dramatic drop in immigration numbers.

You can perhaps understand my perspective on why any deal which retains freedom of movement from the EU is politicians ignoring the view of the people.

These poll numbers are the reason why the main stream parties both adopted the policy to end EU freedom of movement.

Logged
Pokerpops
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1250


View Profile
« Reply #17074 on: April 04, 2019, 07:12:01 AM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

I’d say it’s you that remains clueless to it all, if you genuinely believe that some leave voters didn’t vote because of the reasons I’ve cited. You take all those out of the result & we would have stayed in the EU.

But that’s just not how it works is it?  You can’t ‘take out’ the votes of anyone because you have no idea how people arrived at their decision to vote for either side of the debate, or indeed to not vote at all.

Logged

"More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."
Pokerpops
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1250


View Profile
« Reply #17075 on: April 04, 2019, 08:12:51 AM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/amp/

Here’s another dodgy right wing poll on the UK public’s opinion on immigration in 2018 (Channel 4 News poll).

The majority of the public, around 75%, (including remain voters) backed a dramatic drop in immigration numbers.

You can perhaps understand my perspective on why any deal which retains freedom of movement from the EU is politicians ignoring the view of the people.

These poll numbers are the reason why the main stream parties both adopted the policy to end EU freedom of movement.



As I have said before, and again, as Sir Humphrey explained, poll questions can be tailored to a cause.

As a for instance, Q14 says “Which of the following do you MOST agree with” and gives a binary choice of

It is more important to control immigration from EU countries because it has put too much of a strain on our resources like housing and the NHS,
OR
It is more important that we allow in however many people from EU countries that we need to fill the available jobs to help drive the economy

The first option assumes that all our resource issues in housing and the NHS stem from EU freedom of movement (they don’t)
The second introduces the idea that EU citizens are filling all available jobs

Polls are like bikinis, what they reveal may be interesting. What they conceal is vital.



Logged

"More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."
BigAdz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8152



View Profile
« Reply #17076 on: April 04, 2019, 08:40:15 AM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

I’d say it’s you that remains clueless to it all, if you genuinely believe that some leave voters didn’t vote because of the reasons I’ve cited. You take all those out of the result & we would have stayed in the EU.

Total rubbish, and if you expanded your rhetoric beyond your own 4 walls you will read and see thousands of people telling you they knew enough.

Even now we know very little about what will ACTUALLY  happen, so I still dont see how remoaners can remain so adamant it won't work. Clearly we have 17 million Nostrdamus' in the UK.

Finally, who do we let vote next time for your Peoples Vote. To my mind it should only be those that could be bothered to vote last time. Why should someone who couldn't be bothered last time now have a say on the same subject?

So many Leavers have gotten so dejected by democracy being trampled on they won't bother again, so that won't be fair either, will or?

But you won't care as long as you get your way and have have a very grown up gloat.....
Logged

Good evenink. I wish I had a girlfriend.......
Doobs
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15536


View Profile
« Reply #17077 on: April 04, 2019, 09:41:10 AM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/amp/

Here’s another dodgy right wing poll on the UK public’s opinion on immigration in 2018 (Channel 4 News poll).

The majority of the public, around 75%, (including remain voters) backed a dramatic drop in immigration numbers.

You can perhaps understand my perspective on why any deal which retains freedom of movement from the EU is politicians ignoring the view of the people.

These poll numbers are the reason why the main stream parties both adopted the policy to end EU freedom of movement.



As I have said before, and again, as Sir Humphrey explained, poll questions can be tailored to a cause.

As a for instance, Q14 says “Which of the following do you MOST agree with” and gives a binary choice of

It is more important to control immigration from EU countries because it has put too much of a strain on our resources like housing and the NHS,
OR
It is more important that we allow in however many people from EU countries that we need to fill the available jobs to help drive the economy

The first option assumes that all our resource issues in housing and the NHS stem from EU freedom of movement (they don’t)
The second introduces the idea that EU citizens are filling all available jobs

Polls are like bikinis, what they reveal may be interesting. What they conceal is vital.





I agree with all the above.

I'd say asking about levels of immigration is going to get significantly different results to asking if you agreed with UK people should be allowed to work in Spain, buy property there or use their health service?   All could also be used as proxies for asking people if they agreed with freedom of movement.  Likewise you will always get a big majority for "should my personal taxes be reduced or stay the same?" and also a big majority for "should the Government increase spending on the NHS and education?"

I think the best way to interpret the comments of all these politicians who are insisting that their particular redline is sacrosant is to read them in the voice of a 14 year old.   This works particularly well with Boris Johnson and Emily Thornbury.   Mentally add a "its not fair" to their commments and imagine a stampy foot while they are saying it.

Its a compromise to get an agreement, we are all likely to be unhappy with parts of it.   

Logged

Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
nirvana
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7543



View Profile
« Reply #17078 on: April 04, 2019, 09:59:56 AM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/amp/

Here’s another dodgy right wing poll on the UK public’s opinion on immigration in 2018 (Channel 4 News poll).

The majority of the public, around 75%, (including remain voters) backed a dramatic drop in immigration numbers.

You can perhaps understand my perspective on why any deal which retains freedom of movement from the EU is politicians ignoring the view of the people.

These poll numbers are the reason why the main stream parties both adopted the policy to end EU freedom of movement.



As I have said before, and again, as Sir Humphrey explained, poll questions can be tailored to a cause.

As a for instance, Q14 says “Which of the following do you MOST agree with” and gives a binary choice of

It is more important to control immigration from EU countries because it has put too much of a strain on our resources like housing and the NHS,
OR
It is more important that we allow in however many people from EU countries that we need to fill the available jobs to help drive the economy

The first option assumes that all our resource issues in housing and the NHS stem from EU freedom of movement (they don’t)
The second introduces the idea that EU citizens are filling all available jobs

Polls are like bikinis, what they reveal may be interesting. What they conceal is vital.





I agree with all the above.

I'd say asking about levels of immigration is going to get significantly different results to asking if you agreed with UK people should be allowed to work in Spain, buy property there or use their health service?   All could also be used as proxies for asking people if they agreed with freedom of movement.  Likewise you will always get a big majority for "should my personal taxes be reduced or stay the same?" and also a big majority for "should the Government increase spending on the NHS and education?"

I think the best way to interpret the comments of all these politicians who are insisting that their particular redline is sacrosant is to read them in the voice of a 14 year old.   This works particularly well with Boris Johnson and Emily Thornbury.   Mentally add a "its not fair" to their commments and imagine a stampy foot while they are saying it.

Its a compromise to get an agreement, we are all likely to be unhappy with parts of it.   



Interesting that. So many candidates for who sounds the most idiotic in all this. Certainly on the Labour side, two people I quite liked before are driving me mad. Creasey and Thornberry. Too many to mention on the Tory side.
Logged

sola virtus nobilitat
POWWWWWWWW
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 857


View Profile
« Reply #17079 on: April 04, 2019, 01:28:36 PM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

I’d say it’s you that remains clueless to it all, if you genuinely believe that some leave voters didn’t vote because of the reasons I’ve cited. You take all those out of the result & we would have stayed in the EU.

Total rubbish, and if you expanded your rhetoric beyond your own 4 walls you will read and see thousands of people telling you they knew enough.

Even now we know very little about what will ACTUALLY  happen, so I still dont see how remoaners can remain so adamant it won't work. Clearly we have 17 million Nostrdamus' in the UK.

Finally, who do we let vote next time for your Peoples Vote. To my mind it should only be those that could be bothered to vote last time. Why should someone who couldn't be bothered last time now have a say on the same subject?

So many Leavers have gotten so dejected by democracy being trampled on they won't bother again, so that won't be fair either, will or?

But you won't care as long as you get your way and have have a very grown up gloat.....

I didn't vote last time but now a no deal brexit is a distinct possibility, I'd be fully on board a leave vote. I always fancied being a disaster capitalist.
Logged
ripple11
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6314



View Profile
« Reply #17080 on: April 04, 2019, 04:24:58 PM »

25 Labour MP's written to Jezza.....basically agree the WA with the/a Custom Union and we will vote May's deal through. (no ref or extension)

Crunch time!

« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 04:33:15 PM by ripple11 » Logged
kukushkin88
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3878



View Profile
« Reply #17081 on: April 04, 2019, 04:44:01 PM »

25 Labour MP's written to Jezza.....basically agree the WA with the/a Custom Union and we will vote May's deal through. (no ref or extension)

Crunch time!


Is there a source for this? I think enough Conservatives would oppose it anyway but some scope for it ending up being more than 25 from Labour backing it.
Logged
kukushkin88
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3878



View Profile
« Reply #17082 on: April 04, 2019, 04:49:23 PM »

25 Labour MP's written to Jezza.....basically agree the WA with the/a Custom Union and we will vote May's deal through. (no ref or extension)

Crunch time!


Is there a source for this? I think enough Conservatives would oppose it anyway but some scope for it ending up being more than 25 from Labour backing it.


OK, found it from Reuters, I’ve been out of the loop today.
Logged
EvilPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14083



View Profile
« Reply #17083 on: April 04, 2019, 05:21:26 PM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

I’d say it’s you that remains clueless to it all, if you genuinely believe that some leave voters didn’t vote because of the reasons I’ve cited. You take all those out of the result & we would have stayed in the EU.

Total rubbish, and if you expanded your rhetoric beyond your own 4 walls you will read and see thousands of people telling you they knew enough.

Even now we know very little about what will ACTUALLY  happen, so I still dont see how remoaners can remain so adamant it won't work. Clearly we have 17 million Nostrdamus' in the UK.

Finally, who do we let vote next time for your Peoples Vote. To my mind it should only be those that could be bothered to vote last time. Why should someone who couldn't be bothered last time now have a say on the same subject?

So many Leavers have gotten so dejected by democracy being trampled on they won't bother again, so that won't be fair either, will or?

But you won't care as long as you get your way and have have a very grown up gloat.....

I didn't vote last time but it wasn't because I couldn't be bothered, I genuinely had no idea what I was voting for so didn't know which box to tick. I'm of the opinion that there should never have been a vote until there was some reasonable information rather than just a bunch of propaganda to base your decision on.

I have more of an idea now although still don't know which way I'd go if the crunch came.

Based on the above will you let me have my vote back please?

Logged

Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
RickBFA
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1988


View Profile
« Reply #17084 on: April 04, 2019, 09:13:02 PM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/amp/

Here’s another dodgy right wing poll on the UK public’s opinion on immigration in 2018 (Channel 4 News poll).

The majority of the public, around 75%, (including remain voters) backed a dramatic drop in immigration numbers.

You can perhaps understand my perspective on why any deal which retains freedom of movement from the EU is politicians ignoring the view of the people.

These poll numbers are the reason why the main stream parties both adopted the policy to end EU freedom of movement.



As I have said before, and again, as Sir Humphrey explained, poll questions can be tailored to a cause.

As a for instance, Q14 says “Which of the following do you MOST agree with” and gives a binary choice of

It is more important to control immigration from EU countries because it has put too much of a strain on our resources like housing and the NHS,
OR
It is more important that we allow in however many people from EU countries that we need to fill the available jobs to help drive the economy

The first option assumes that all our resource issues in housing and the NHS stem from EU freedom of movement (they don’t)
The second introduces the idea that EU citizens are filling all available jobs

Polls are like bikinis, what they reveal may be interesting. What they conceal is vital.





So basically if the poll doesn't suit your opinion it can be as good as dismissed as bordering on meaningless then.

Not much point in posting poll results on that basis as we can all say, "what they conceal is vital", especially when the findings don't suit your point of view or beliefs.

Here's one direct from YouGov's own website in 2018. Findings are similar (with marginally reduction in numbers not happy with immigration numbers). Perhaps you could pull YouGov's questioning on this one to pieces?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/04/27/where-public-stands-immigration

What all three polls I have posted demostrate is a consistent disatifaction with UK immigration policy of successive Governments when EU freedom of movement has been allowed.

This cant be dismissed as manipulation. These were peoples views. You seem as adept as the politicians at ignoring the reality of public opinion.


Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1135 1136 1137 1138 [1139] 1140 1141 1142 1143 ... 1529 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.467 seconds with 22 queries.