The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Mark_Porter]

Can a no deal Brexit be imposed on us?

I.e. we tick down to the date and can't get a new deal over the line. We hit the date and "no deal" just happens? I.e. doesn't need to pass through a parliamentary vote

Yes that's what will happen. However parliament has previously acted to stop that happening, e.g. legislating that we seek an extension rather than hit that date. That's why some candidates have been going on about proroguing parliament to try and prevent that happening. Very democratic denying my elected MP a voice.

Ah ok, so parliament will, in effect, always force us to seek an extension rather than let no deal happen. I guess at some point, Europe will say no more extensions though.

[nirvana]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

What is it about these wankers that think they can just do what they want without consequence? She got off pretty lightly by simply getting chucked out of the room...

Watching the footage again, she is in no pain, she is actually smirking. And this bloke will likely lose his job.

Where is the disgrace?

She seems to grimace when he shoves her first time, and it looks like she carries om grimacing, though it is hard to tell.   I think it is clearer that he is pretty angry, and an angry man pushing a woman by the neck is not a good look.   I can understand why he is aggressive, but think he ends up resigning.

I think the police will investigate the "assault", as they should do, and will then press no charges.

He doesn't lose his job for stopping the woman, he loses it for the manner he did it.  He could have just stopped her and waited for police/security removed her "correctly". I acceot it is hard to act correctly in the spur of the moment, but it us hard to believe that he thought a climate change protester in an evening gown had a knife.

And FWIW he is pretty likely to remain as an MP, so he going to get demoted and not lose his job.   Give it a while and he can start climbing that greasy pole again.

Do think it's ludicrously over blown but I can guarantee if it had been a big bloke with a weapon he wouldn't have acted so instinctively haha as a have a go hero

[Doobs]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

What is it about these wankers that think they can just do what they want without consequence? She got off pretty lightly by simply getting chucked out of the room...

Watching the footage again, she is in no pain, she is actually smirking. And this bloke will likely lose his job.

Where is the disgrace?

She seems to grimace when he shoves her first time, and it looks like she carries om grimacing, though it is hard to tell.   I think it is clearer that he is pretty angry, and an angry man pushing a woman by the neck is not a good look.   I can understand why he is aggressive, but think he ends up resigning.

I think the police will investigate the "assault", as they should do, and will then press no charges.

He doesn't lose his job for stopping the woman, he loses it for the manner he did it.  He could have just stopped her and waited for police/security removed her "correctly". I acceot it is hard to act correctly in the spur of the moment, but it us hard to believe that he thought a climate change protester in an evening gown had a knife.

And FWIW he is pretty likely to remain as an MP, so he going to get demoted and not lose his job.   Give it a while and he can start climbing that greasy pole again.

Do think it's ludicrously over blown but I can guarantee if it had been a big bloke with a weapon he wouldn't have acted so instinctively haha as a have a go hero

Pretty much what I thought.  Drags her past two other women saying to them "can you get this person out", not "clear the way, she might have a knife".  From other footage it seems clear that those in the room were already aware a climate change protest was happening. 

Anyway, he has just been suspended.

And FWIW She should get investigated if she has potentially committed a crime too.

[Longines]

Another MP has been unseated by a recall petition - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176.

Brexit party came top in the relevant Euro elections.

Between this and a couple of other potential by-elections, Boris could be looking at a wafer thin majority before he gets the keys to No.10.

[aaron1867]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone who voted Brexit agrees with this assault.

[StuartHopkin]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone who voted Brexit agrees with this assault.

Yawn

[Cf]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone who voted Brexit agrees with this assault.

Stop it.

[doubleup]

Just looked at the video - it's clearly an assault.  I can't see how it can be justified and if it goes to court he will be convicted (I don't know if she has to press charges- she might not).

[Cf]

Just looked at the video - it's clearly an assault.  I can't see how it can be justified and if it goes to court he will be convicted (I don't know if she has to press charges- she might not).

It's not up to her whether it goes to court or not.

[RED-DOG]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone who voted Brexit agrees with this assault.

Proof positive if proof were needed that Aaron is just trolling to get a reaction.

It would be great if everyone could just ignore him.

[Jon MW]

Just looked at the video - it's clearly an assault.  I can't see how it can be justified and if it goes to court he will be convicted (I don't know if she has to press charges- she might not).

It's not up to her whether it goes to court or not.

It is clearly an assault - but that doesn't really mean much.

A mild push with the palm of the hand to stop someone walking past you meets the criteria for assault.

What the CPS will primarily have to decide would be if it's a proportionate response and if it's in the public interest to prosecute.

I suspect the first bit is tenuous and the second unlikely.

A trained professional might have done it with a bit more finesse and a little less aggressiveness but there isn't really a 'gentle' way to force someone to leave.

I think the issue is that he did it at all.

Thinking she might be dangerous is clearly BS; but I completely believe him when he said he was just acting on instinct.

The problem with that is that he's a politician and a former lawyer - there's absolutely no excuse for him not to be able to over rule his instincts and emotions and to react rationally instead.

If he's that emotionally volatile then his fitness for the job might reasonably be questioned but it's a bit of a tabloidy response to think he should be prosecuted and locked up for it.

[MANTIS01]

As a passionate supporter of equality I don’t dig this reverse sexism of a man shouldn’t restrain a woman

If we objectify and lose the gender we can call the woman a threat or an intruder. In a split second it’s unreasonable to expect regular folk to be able to assess the scale of threat and act as security professionals would or neutralise the threat as appropriately. In the moment people almost always don’t act as they would with the benefit of hindsight.

It boils down to what type of society we become. Do we want to sit there inactive whilst intruders stride past, frightened to act in case retrospective criticism comes our way? And in so doing encourage this behaviour from more dangerous threats with more serious consequences? Or do we want people to resist threats and offer them a bit of latitude in the process.

When I’m flying back from holibobs and a threat is trying to push into the cockpit I hope nearby passengers feel comfortable in performing choke hold manoeuvres on man or woman. Mrs Wilkins from Woking might only have been wanting a selfie with the captain but I feel better she is now on her back with Dave from Dunstable’s knee on her chest.

[doubleup]

@JohnMW

Who said he should be "locked up"?  

He pushed her violently against a pillar.  Obv we are into nitty legal detail, but on what basis was he entitled to think he had the right to remove her from the room?  He is now concocting the "weapon" story which as you say is complete BS.

[Jon MW]

@JohnMW

Who said he should be "locked up"?  

He pushed her violently against a pillar.  Obv we are into nitty legal detail, but on what basis was he entitled to think he had the right to remove her from the room?  He is now concocting the "weapon" story which as you say is complete BS.

People on twitter - it's the next "logical" step after calling for a prosecution.

It's like all the people on social media who said Gove should be locked up for taking cocaine.

If you rented a room over a pub for a private party and someone gatecrashed - the proper thing to do would be to wait for someone from the pub staff to throw them out. But I don't think anyone would think it unreasonable if one of your guests did it themselves.

Being an angry and aggressive twat isn't illegal - the question is whether he crossed the line from being inappropriate to being in the public good to prosecute.

[BigAdz]

I see a Greenpeace protest went a little wrong yesterday when an MP had to remove a protester himself.

Calls for him to be sacked are crazy.

If the woman had a knife or a bomb on her, he would be a hero, but in this day and age he ends up a villain.

If these people run across rooms in a threatening manner, I feel they bypass the right to be treated like adults a and deserve all they get.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone who voted Brexit agrees with this assault.

Im sure this is a wind up, but then you are such a prick, nothing surprises me anymore.