The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

Kukushkin:
“ If we’re going to criticise Blair, it has to be the war and tuition fees imo. The war is tough though, the country overwhelmingly supported it at the time and standing alongside the US no matter what was still undoubtedly the agreed UK position at the time. “

The country supported the war because they believed Blair’s lies about WOMD

I don’t recall a survey that asked the public whether we should stand alongside the US no matter what. It was Blair who seemed to make that decision. Or do you have evidence?

They weren’t actually Blair’s lies were they, whilst he might of been complicit in misleading people about the overall picture. All sorts of international intelligence agencies fed in to that, loads of them American. Standing shoulder to shoulder with the US was absolutely the understood UK position (by basically everybody) since WWII. The only real dissenting voices were people like Benn (senior) and Corbyn.

[kukushkin88]

Labour not doing great in the polls by the looks of it. I suppose that’s where indecision gets you. It says something when I wouldn’t for vote for Labour and would absolutely protest vote against them with the Brexit Party.

You would vote for the Brexit Party over Labour? There has to be some confused thinking in this. What would your thought process be?

[Pokerpops]

Kukushkin:
“ If we’re going to criticise Blair, it has to be the war and tuition fees imo. The war is tough though, the country overwhelmingly supported it at the time and standing alongside the US no matter what was still undoubtedly the agreed UK position at the time. “

The country supported the war because they believed Blair’s lies about WOMD

I don’t recall a survey that asked the public whether we should stand alongside the US no matter what. It was Blair who seemed to make that decision. Or do you have evidence?

They weren’t actually Blair’s lies were they, whilst he might of been complicit in misleading people about the overall picture. All sorts of international intelligence agencies fed in to that, loads of them American. Standing shoulder to shoulder with the US was absolutely the understood UK position (by basically everybody) since WWII. The only real dissenting voices were people like Benn (senior) and Corbyn.

The Stop the War Coalition managed to get a decent crowd together in London on 15/02/03.

You can only say that they weren’t Blair’s lies if you believe that he believed the information he was being given.

[kukushkin88]

Kukushkin:
“ If we’re going to criticise Blair, it has to be the war and tuition fees imo. The war is tough though, the country overwhelmingly supported it at the time and standing alongside the US no matter what was still undoubtedly the agreed UK position at the time. “

The country supported the war because they believed Blair’s lies about WOMD

I don’t recall a survey that asked the public whether we should stand alongside the US no matter what. It was Blair who seemed to make that decision. Or do you have evidence?

They weren’t actually Blair’s lies were they, whilst he might of been complicit in misleading people about the overall picture. All sorts of international intelligence agencies fed in to that, loads of them American. Standing shoulder to shoulder with the US was absolutely the understood UK position (by basically everybody) since WWII. The only real dissenting voices were people like Benn (senior) and Corbyn.

The Stop the War Coalition managed to get a decent crowd together in London on 15/02/03.

You can only say that they weren’t Blair’s lies if you believe that he believed the information he was being given.

Yep, that’s fair. We can certainly acknowledge that none of us know what he actually knew. I can certainly believe that he would lie to protect relations with the US.

Stop the War Coalition.... Chaired by JC, with Tony Benn as its most prominent and highest profile voice. Honourable mentions for Galloway, Murray, German. It’s certainly interesting to reflect on.

[MANTIS01]

I would figure the interpretation of information from a country hell bent on vengeance should always be questioned

How rigorously Blair investigated the integrity of the supplied intelligence is key regarding culpability imo

[TightEnd]

Labour down to 18%, record low in poll

CON 24%(+2)
BREX 23%(+1)
LDEM 20%(+1)
LAB 18%(-2)
GRN 9%(-1)

📉Lowest ever rating with YouGov back to 2002

📉Only time as low as 18% was IpsosMORI in May’09

📉57% of Lab ‘17 voters back other parties

[TightEnd]

“We can leave without a deal and be like Canada!”

Canada: “If you leave without a deal, you’re on your own.”

Canada Is Refusing To Roll Over Its EU Trade Agreement For The UK If There's A No-Deal Brexit

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/canada-is-refusing-to-roll-over-its-eu-trade-agreement-for

[TightEnd]

Boris Johnson’s team fear the tide is moving against him, says Robert Peston

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/boris-johnsons-team-fear-the-tide-is-moving-against-him/

[TightEnd]

UK PMI shows near-stagnation of the service sector in June in one of the worst performances seen over the past decade. Adds to the flow of bad news after steep declines seen in both manufacturing and construction.

Collectively, the PMI surveys indicate that the UK economy has slipped into contraction for the first time since July 2016, suffering the second-steepest fall in output since the height of the global financial crisis in April 2009

[kukushkin88]

I would figure the interpretation of information from a country hell bent on vengeance should always be questioned

How rigorously Blair investigated the integrity of the supplied intelligence is key regarding culpability imo

I agree completely. I could certainly believe that he consciously didn’t do his due diligence because he wanted (and wanted us) to be on Team America: (WP).

[TightEnd]

Last week the Government announced the restart of its no-deal Brexit plans, including securing "extra warehouse space" for stockpiling medicines... ..manufacturers and retailers are also expected to try to stockpile supplies ahead of a potential no-deal on 31 October...

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-06-26/HCWS1661/

but Savills data shows that the nationwide vacancy rate for warehouse space in Q2 2019 is just 6.8%, which analysts say is already extremely low...

"The biggest concern at the moment is that the October deadline comes right bang in the middle of peak season. From a timing point of view it couldn’t be worse..."says the head of the UK Warehouse associaton

presumably as stocks are built up for xmas season

[TightEnd]

Meanwhile on sky this am

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay

- No-deal could mean recession but says UK must leave Oct 31
- Wants to “ramp up” No Deal prep: Treasury & others they need to speed up
- Big unknown is whether SMEs ready; planning an autumn media campaign

[TightEnd]

Alternate headline: Minister tells business to spend money preparing for something that may not happen, for a third time.

Government has access to the new magic money tree. Business does not

No-deal Brexit -

“We’ve marched up the hill twice already, so we’re getting a bit more practised at it, but there is no mitigation that could overcome the disruption to the supply chain”

Sainsburys CEO

[TightEnd]

lse blog

Brexit wonrt happen this year

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/03/brexit-wont-happen-this-year/

[TightEnd]

meanwhile on Ireland

"It is now clear that Brexiteers and both Johnson/Hunt accept that for technology to deliver on Irish border they will need to dilute commitment to 'no hard border' in Ireland - where does this lead? "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/02/tory-hopefuls-irish-border-fixes-may-break-westminster-deadlock/