The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

98 reasons to stay in the EU:


Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers, representing 23% of global GDP
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China
With Trump in the White House the UK’s strongest natural allies are France, Germany and our other West European neighbours
Tariff-free trade within the EU
The abolition of non-tariff barriers (quotas, subsidies, administrative rules etc.) among members
Participation in free trade agreements with Japan and Canada as an EU member
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services
Cheaper food and alcohol imports from continental Europe
As a member of the EU the UK maintains a say in the shaping of the rules governing its trade with its European partners
3.1 million jobs in the UK are directly linked to exports to the EU
Free movement of labour has helped UK firms plug skills gaps (translators, doctors, plumbers)
Free movement of labour has helped address shortages of unskilled workers (fruit picking, catering)
The Single Market has brought the best continental footballers to the Premier League
The EU accounts for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), worth over $1.2 trillion
Access to the EU Single Market has helped attract investment into the UK from outside the EU
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Price transparency and removal of commissions on currency transactions across the Eurozone
FDI into the UK has effectively doubled since the creation of the EU Single Market
The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP (less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spending)
No time consuming border checks for travellers (apart from in the UK)
The City of London, as a global financial hub, has acted as a bridge between foreign business and the EU
British banks and insurance companies have been able to operate freely across the EU
Cornwall receives up to £750 million per year from the EU Social Fund (ESF)
Structural funding for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline (South Wales, Yorkshire)
Support for rural areas under the European Agricultural Fund for Regional Development (EAFRD)
EU funding for infrastructure projects in the UK including £122 million for the “Midlands engine” project
Financial support from the EU for over 3,000 small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the UK
EU funding for the British film industry
EU funding for British theatre, music and dance
EU funding for British sport, including football apprenticeships, tennis and rugby league
Glasgow (1990) and Liverpool (2008) benefitted from being European capitals of culture, stimulating their local economies
EU competition laws protect consumers by combatting monopolistic business practices
Strict controls on the operations of Multinational Corporations (MNCs) in the EU
Human Rights protected under the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
The death penalty can never be reintroduced as it is incompatible with EU membership
Minority languages such as Welsh and Irish are recognized and protected under EU law
The right to reside in any EU member state
The freedom to work in 28 countries without visa and immigration restrictions
The mutual recognition of professional qualifications has facilitated the free movement of engineers, teachers and doctors across the EU
The mutual recognition of educational diplomas
The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) has standardized assessment of language proficiency across the EU
The freedom to study in 28 countries (many EU universities teach courses in English and charge lower fees than in the UK)
The Erasmus programme of university exchanges (benefitting 16000 UK students a year)
The freedom to set up a business in 28 countries
The ability to retire in any member state
Pension transferability
The right to vote in local and European Parliamentary elections if resident in any member state
EU laws making it easier for British people to buy property on the continent
The right to receive emergency healthcare in any member state (EHIC card)
Consular protection from any EU embassy outside the EU
The EU has played a leading role in combatting global warming (Paris 2015 climate change conference)
Common EU greenhouse gas emissions targets (19% reduction from 1990 to 2015)
Improvements in air quality (significant reductions in sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides) as a result of EU legislation
Reductions in sewage emissions
Improvements in the quality of beaches and bathing water
EU standards on the quality of drinking water
Restrictions on landfill dumping
EU targets for recycling
Common EU regulations on the transportation and disposal of toxic waste
The implementation of EU policies to reduce noise pollution in urban areas
EU policies have stimulated offshore wind farms
Strict safety standards for cars, buses and trucks
Protection of endangered species and habitats (EU Natura 2000 network)
Strict ban on animal testing in the cosmetics industry
Membership of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) which monitors the quality and safety of medicines (until recently located in London)
13% of EU budget earmarked for scientific research and innovation
The UK receives £730 million a year in EU funding for research
EU funding for UK universities
Cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy as a member of Euratom
Minimum paid annual leave and time off work (Working Time Directive)
Equal pay between men and women enshrined in European law since 1957
The right to work no more than 48 hours a week without paid overtime
Minimum guaranteed maternity leave of 14 weeks for pregnant women
Rights to a minimum 18 weeks of parental leave after child birth
EU anti-discrimination laws governing age, religion and sexual orientation
EU rules governing health and safety at work
The rights to collective bargaining and trade union membership are enshrined in EU employment law
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area
Since 1985 the UK has received a budget rebate equivalent to 66% of its net contribution to the EU budget
EU cross-country coordination offers greater protection from terrorists, pedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime
The European common arrest warrant
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection
EU consumer protection laws concerning transparency and product guarantees of quality and safety
Improved food labeling
A ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives
Cheaper air travel due to EU competition laws
Common EU air passenger rights
Deregulation of the European energy market has increased consumer choice and lowered prices
Mutual recognition of the common European driving license
The introduction of the European pet passport
The abolition of mobile telephone roaming charges
The EU acts as a guarantor of the Irish Good Friday Agreement
A frictionless Irish border
The EU acts as a guarantor of the special status of Gibraltar
The EU helped support and maintain democracy in Spain, Portugal and Greece from the 1970s and these countries have become major destinations for British tourists
EU membership has helped facilitate intercultural dialogue
Found via Campaign to Remain – keep Britain in Europe Facebook page

So many of these are nonsenses - it would be much better to focus on 10 really meaningful benefits of membership - OTOH, i suppose some of the nonsenses from a 'would you join ?' perspective are of some value in a 'should we stay in ?' scenario

So glad I found time to contribute

[MANTIS01]

A deal, acceptable enough, was blocked three times and voted down by hard-line leave MPs (the marginal voter in each vote)

Given the Irish issues it was the best deal possible.

They are only reason we are not now out and moving onto trading arrangements with the EU and others

Nothing to do with remainers. It's self-inflicted by leavers I am afraid.

Didn’t realise Labour were hard line leave now, so confusing

Ref the 98 benefits for England my personal fav was having all the best foreign players fecking up the England team.

Just can’t grasp how a benefit is Marouane Fellaini gracing prem.

[TightEnd]

A deal, acceptable enough, was blocked three times and voted down by hard-line leave MPs (the marginal voter in each vote)

Given the Irish issues it was the best deal possible.

They are only reason we are not now out and moving onto trading arrangements with the EU and others

Nothing to do with remainers. It's self-inflicted by leavers I am afraid.

Didn’t realise Labour were hard line leave now, so confusing

Ref the 98 benefits for England my personal fav was having all the best foreign players fecking up the England team.

Just can’t grasp how a benefit is Marouane Fellaini gracing prem.

The marginal voter (conservative for, labour against etc) was the ERG. they (and the DUP, but thats a different consideration) vote it through we are out now. Everything else then becomes irrelevant

Labour remainers voting against is yes another issue. Simply horrible putting party above national interest, borne of having no defensible Brexit position, a pure leaver as leader and thoughts that voting against would lead to peoples vote or election

If they vote for it it might also have gone through, but make no mistake the deal was done in first and foremost by Leavers (who don't have the essential difficulty a Labour MP has, voting for another party's deal)  on the Tory benches

For that, i think history will show we pay a heavy price but of course we will see.

[Sheriff Fatman]

where Donald Trump clashed with EU leaders and Theresa May

Best summary of Theresa May's time as PM as I've seen anywhere.

[ripple11]

Absolutely inspired again

Will brighten up your day

https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer/status/1152185504554606592?s=19

Brilliant ...a real lol

[Pokerpops]

Amazeballs that a constant Remain criticism is What is the plan? We have no plan?

Yet every day the message from Remain is Lol at how stupid people are. Look at how fucked we are.

What a tremendous plan

The plan is revoke Article 50, accompanied by a raft of apologies to folks like you from the likes of DC, May, Boris and Gove.

Would the next plan be to revoke the GE result and put Corbyn on the throne?

No.

but we can add him to list of people that owe you an apology.

I think we could pretty easily arrive at a list of 98 people who owe us all an apology.

[Pokerpops]

One thing from Panorama last night

Selmayr and Lidlington both accepted that at one point a "remain and reform" offer was on the table, proposed by the EU

moratorium for 5 years, build a new deal, PR it as more in our favour (the rebates are already hugely in our favour, no schengen, no euro too etc but still)

Lidlington, an ardent pro-european, said it wasn't taken forward as the result of the referendum has to be accepted

Whilst that is laudable, what a missed opportunity! the leave vote could have led somewhere positive. All the EU benefits, at even less cost, because of the leverage the vote had produced to cause it

Little leverage since.

Such a wasted opportunity. But then, Cameron had already been to the E.U. to get a better deal and been sent away with effectively nothing. Why should we expect any different in terms of reform post-referendum?

[TightEnd]

Well it's all academic now. However the new reformed approach was postulated as a response to extreme nationalism eg trump, Brexit, far right. Presumably as all are a long term challenge to the future of their federal union.

As to whether it would have meant anything in practice, I don't know.

[BigAdz]

One thing from Panorama last night

Selmayr and Lidlington both accepted that at one point a "remain and reform" offer was on the table, proposed by the EU

moratorium for 5 years, build a new deal, PR it as more in our favour (the rebates are already hugely in our favour, no schengen, no euro too etc but still)

Lidlington, an ardent pro-european, said it wasn't taken forward as the result of the referendum has to be accepted

Whilst that is laudable, what a missed opportunity! the leave vote could have led somewhere positive. All the EU benefits, at even less cost, because of the leverage the vote had produced to cause it

Little leverage since.

Such a wasted opportunity. But then, Cameron had already been to the E.U. to get a better deal and been sent away with effectively nothing. Why should we expect any different in terms of reform post-referendum?

Again, this will be ignored by the remainers.......

[kukushkin88]

One thing from Panorama last night

Selmayr and Lidlington both accepted that at one point a "remain and reform" offer was on the table, proposed by the EU

moratorium for 5 years, build a new deal, PR it as more in our favour (the rebates are already hugely in our favour, no schengen, no euro too etc but still)

Lidlington, an ardent pro-european, said it wasn't taken forward as the result of the referendum has to be accepted

Whilst that is laudable, what a missed opportunity! the leave vote could have led somewhere positive. All the EU benefits, at even less cost, because of the leverage the vote had produced to cause it

Little leverage since.

Such a wasted opportunity. But then, Cameron had already been to the E.U. to get a better deal and been sent away with effectively nothing. Why should we expect any different in terms of reform post-referendum?

Again, this will be ignored by the remainers.......

I keep thinking your record on predicting the future can’t get any worse, I’m wrong to do so.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/brexit-david-cameron-did-even-more-damage-than-you-think/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/24/david-cameron-was-a-historic-and-disastrous-failure/

[TightEnd]

One thing from Panorama last night

Selmayr and Lidlington both accepted that at one point a "remain and reform" offer was on the table, proposed by the EU

moratorium for 5 years, build a new deal, PR it as more in our favour (the rebates are already hugely in our favour, no schengen, no euro too etc but still)

Lidlington, an ardent pro-european, said it wasn't taken forward as the result of the referendum has to be accepted

Whilst that is laudable, what a missed opportunity! the leave vote could have led somewhere positive. All the EU benefits, at even less cost, because of the leverage the vote had produced to cause it

Little leverage since.

Such a wasted opportunity. But then, Cameron had already been to the E.U. to get a better deal and been sent away with effectively nothing. Why should we expect any different in terms of reform post-referendum?

Again, this will be ignored by the remainers.......

I had already responded. The idea that the difference between Cameron and post Cameron is Trump and nationalism.

This was suggested in panorama and the BBC article I linked to two days ago.

[Doobs]

Looks like a political crisis for Boris on day 1.  Presumably he is about to tell the World that the tanker was involved in Arms smuggling given past form with Iran? 

[Doobs]

Oh dear, second "British" tanker heading towards Iran.  This is all very worrying.

[aaron1867]

It’s madness that people don’t think the decision people made to Brexit hasn’t cost lives. The domestic agenda has been put aside to deal that some people made.

Meanwhile our eyes have been taken off:

NHS
Police
Mental health
Social care
Universal credit

[kukushkin88]

It’s madness that people don’t think the decision people made to Brexit hasn’t cost lives. The domestic agenda has been put aside to deal that some people made.

Meanwhile our eyes have been taken off:

NHS
Police
Mental health
Social care
Universal credit

The decision not to fund anything isn’t due to Brexit.