The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

 demolition of the  "Jeremy worked for peace in NI" claim

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

Size of CON Majority estimates falling fast. 150-174 replaced as fav by 100-124 with 50-74 next best.

Click to see full-size image.

your pin would alight on which band?

[TightEnd]

CON spreads down 9 on SportingIndex 383-390

http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british?tpid=6441&btag=a_7b_95c_

Spreadex 384-391

https://spreadex.com?tid=356759spreadex.com/?tid=356759spreadex.com/?tid=356759spr 

[PokerBroker]

demolition of the  "Jeremy worked for peace in NI" claim

Click to see full-size image.

That is bollocks though.  The Stoops were and still are constitutional  Nationalists who had no chance of creating peace.  In the 80's organisations were not PRO-IRA they were very much anti-war.  No doubt there were elements like most factions they had individuals who were supportive of an IRA military campaign. 

It really is staggering when the Brit State and their media try and re-write history. 

[nirvana]

Politics is just so childish though isn't it. We're now going to have the irony, I think, of Labour favouring the wealthy getting their winter payments, Labour being in favour of preserving inherited wealth, labour being critical of the wealthy having to fund their own social care to benefit the many.

Too ridic

[TightEnd]

Politics is just so childish though isn't it. We're now going to have the irony, I think, of Labour favouring the wealthy getting their winter payments, Labour being in favour of preserving inherited wealth, labour being critical of the wealthy having to fund their own social care to benefit the many.

Too ridic

all this was sort of my point to Keith earlier. A Labour supporter should be (i think) in favour of this conservative maniesto proposal (but obviously not lots of other stuff in it) and a right wing tory against it (Red theresa etc)...it redistributes the burden to the wealthy and the poorer pensioner is protected if under the various caps 

[nirvana]

Politics is just so childish though isn't it. We're now going to have the irony, I think, of Labour favouring the wealthy getting their winter payments, Labour being in favour of preserving inherited wealth, labour being critical of the wealthy having to fund their own social care to benefit the many.

Too ridic

all this was sort of my point to Keith earlier. A Labour supporter should be (i think) in favour of this conservative maniesto proposal (but obviously not lots of other stuff in it) and a right wing tory against it (Red theresa etc)...it redistributes the burden to the wealthy and the poorer pensioner is protected if under the various caps 

Yah got that, just echoing really. In principle, as left leaning I like it but it really undermines some fundamentals that I also agree with. Gotta give this one a long think

[TightEnd]

i think the tactics of it is interesting

they could have said

"ageing population, lots of funding strains for the state because of social care, triple lock etc.we are going to appoint a royal commission to recommend strategies and put it to parliament"

instead they threw it straight into the manifesto, where it affects their core support (older, wealthy) the most

of course they think that this might be one of the few elections they can propose this (which everyone agrees is a problem for the economy as baby boomers reach retirement and people are living longer) and win (Cameron couldn't) but i wonder how squeaky it gets if it goes say 43-40% in the polls in the next few weeks

if it does i suppose they get corbyn as opposition for another five years, so maybe they don'tmind that

(thinking aloud)

[The Camel]

the sunday times comments

Rich old people want average and low income young people to pay for their care.

Seems fair.

So you must support that element of the Conservative manifesto then?

House prices have risen far faster than inflation over the last 30+ years.

That increase in wealth has never been taxed.

So, yes, even without bringing my opinions of inheritance into the argument, I broadly agree with the policy.

[The Camel]

the sunday times comments

Rich old people want average and low income young people to pay for their care.

Seems fair.

If Labour benefits from any bounce it will be from these rich old people - you should be wooing them, as Labour really must, rather than mocking them.

For the most part, people who own their houses have worked hard to do that. If they've earned good salaries then they've paid massive slices of tax in their lives to pay for people of all ages to receive their slice of the services government provides.

Your antipathy towards old people or rich people or both is unpleasant and I feel like I need to give you a stern talking to. I am both old and comfortable and happy to continue to pay more than average to pay for the services that our people benefit from, as well as being a lucky recipient of my fair share of NHS spending.

 You're very lucky to be in a profession where you pay no income tax - it grates when you major on other people not really relishing paying more tax, who does ? You lack balance in your views in a really lacking balance kind of way.

I think I've made my opinions on professional gamblers not paying income tax clear enough over the years. It's an absolute disgrace.

Sure, old people who have worked all their lives have paid plenty of tax. But they have also used up plenty of services in their 70+ years on this planet too.

Social care is a huge elephant in the room. Someone has got to pay for it at some point.

Do you think it's fairer a 20 year old, who is just starting his likely 50+ year working life pay for care he may never use or would you rather a person who has benefited from a huge rise in house prices which has never been taxed, pay for it.

I find it incredible that fears over education cuts, policing slashed, our useless transport system or the NHS funding crisis, has not prodicued the mearest dent in the Tory lead in the opinion polls.

But the fact that rich old people might have to pay for their own care if they can afford it, causes a 10% swing from Conservative to Labour.

[The Camel]

The stern talking to was certainly appreciated though.

I have no antipathy towards old or rich people in general.

Just the selfish ones.

[neeko]

The arrogance / over confidence of tory commentators show they have learned nothing from the trump election in the US.

Millions of republicans voted for trump because/ inspite of him against hillary - there is no reason why labour voters wont ignore their (polls shown) dislike of Jeremy and vote for a local candidate / hatred of the conservatives.

I don't know who to vote for or even who I want to lose most.

[The Camel]

The arrogance / over confidence of tory commentators show they have learned nothing from the trump election in the US.

Millions of republicans voted for trump because/ inspite of him against hillary - there is no reason why labour voters wont ignore their (polls shown) dislike of Jeremy and vote for a local candidate / hatred of the conservatives.

I don't know who to vote for or even who I want to lose most.

I agree with this.

I have no idea who I will vote for.

I respect Corbyn as a man but he's not really a credible leader of a government, and the platoon of clowns in the shadow cabinet worries me greatly.

I cannot abide Tim Farron, if Clegg was still LD leader I'd probably vote that way.

But as it is, I'd vote for anyone who is liable to keep a Tory candidate out. And as I live in one the safest Tory constituencies in the country, I'm wasting far too much time fretting about it!

[RickBFA]

I thought Damien Green on the Andrew Marr Show this morning was very poor for the Tories.

The likes of Green, Fox, Johnson are just cringe worthy,poor communicators. May does look awkward and Hunt comes across as a smug creep. And I say that as someone who is naturally right of centre.

Very lucky there is no credible opposition and that they wheel out Abbott, McDonnell & Co who are bigger clowns when communicating through the media.

[nirvana]

The arrogance / over confidence of tory commentators show they have learned nothing from the trump election in the US.

Millions of republicans voted for trump because/ inspite of him against hillary - there is no reason why labour voters wont ignore their (polls shown) dislike of Jeremy and vote for a local candidate / hatred of the conservatives.

I don't know who to vote for or even who I want to lose most.

I agree with this.

I have no idea who I will vote for.

I respect Corbyn as a man but he's not really a credible leader of a government, and the platoon of clowns in the shadow cabinet worries me greatly.

I cannot abide Tim Farron, if Clegg was still LD leader I'd probably vote that way.

But as it is, I'd vote for anyone who is liable to keep a Tory candidate out. And as I live in one the safest Tory constituencies in the country, I'm wasting far too much time fretting about it!

Agree with this, although I watched Peter Dowd on Sunday Politics this morning and he seemed to be much more sensible than most of the clowns.

Really feels like a terrible choice this time. I'd prefer it if the major issues like Brexit, Health & Social Care, funding education, were the subject of broad long term consensus than party political footballs