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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180519 times)
arbboy
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« Reply #2670 on: June 10, 2016, 12:16:37 PM »

same question another way

we are used to shy tories

we also had an element of shy unionist in the scottish campaign

is there a "shy remain" element at play here?

vote leave are more passionate (those wanting change going to be compared to those happy with the status quo), louder on social media?


as an aside, and i know the tory v tory stuff has been very unedifying but one Labour MP reported being on the stump in a northern town and

a) a majority of labour voters thought labour's official stance was to leave
b) an even bigger majority of labour working class voters they canvassed were leave (a lot on immigration grounds)  

Remain needs a solid labour vote to come out but with Corbyn so low profile and a lot of distraction on the tory battles i am not so sure it will

i am beginning to wonder!

The shy remain is the only reason remain is 75/25 in the betting. Can't be any other reason surely?

As for the Labour stance I would imagine the average working class labour voter who has no interest in politics on a day by day basis would assume Labour would stand for leave.   Protecting lower paid UK jobs from economic immigrants from the EU on a really simplistic view.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:29:04 PM by arbboy » Logged
DaveShoelace
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« Reply #2671 on: June 10, 2016, 12:19:40 PM »

Might just be where I live/who I hang around with, but all the vocal, judgemental and aggressive voices have been for remain my end. Basically accusing anyone who expresses euro scepticism of being racist and/or a little englander.

Probably just my mates though.
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« Reply #2672 on: June 10, 2016, 12:32:13 PM »

same question another way

we are used to shy tories

we also had an element of shy unionist in the scottish campaign

is there a "shy remain" element at play here?

vote leave are more passionate (those wanting change going to be compared to those happy with the status quo), louder on social media?


as an aside, and i know the tory v tory stuff has been very unedifying but one Labour MP reported being on the stump in a northern town and

a) a majority of labour voters thought labour's official stance was to leave
b) an even bigger majority of labour working class voters they canvassed were leave (a lot on immigration grounds) 

Remain needs a solid labour vote to come out but with Corbyn so low profile and a lot of distraction on the tory battles i am not so sure it will

i am beginning to wonder!

A query about opinion polls.  I don't answer any surveys at all and just say no every time I get a phone call asking for any info of any kind.  Are there many others like me?  If so, how to they adjust for that in polls?

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PokerBroker
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« Reply #2673 on: June 10, 2016, 01:33:46 PM »

It seems to me the vote is really England-centric in that there has been very little actual debate in Scotland, during our referendum my facebook was alight with both sides.  The same on twitter and even at work and in the pub.  But this time round it's just a bit boring. 

I am voting to leave.  My vote has nothing to do with immigration either.  I pretty much agree with everything that was in that Steve Hedley article I posted.  In addition to that I think the way the EU treated the people of Greece, Portugal and Italy was appalling. 
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nirvana
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« Reply #2674 on: June 10, 2016, 02:05:20 PM »

It's taken a while but I'm definitely voting out.

A vote for staying is primarily a vote for big business & banking and well, I just don't care much for them irrespective of the lolwealth and lolincreases in GDP they generate - if they could do without us as employees they would. Even if I cared about this or was concerned about this I would deal with it with a certain equanimity as the very reason big business is attracted here (the opportunity to exploit workers with Government consent) will continue to be the case for the foreseeable.

I think I'm increasingly persuaded by Tony Benn's commentary on Democracy from all those years ago and replayed earlier in this thread. I'm also persuaded that you can't make sensible economic and civil planning decisions that ensure the right kind of infrastructure exists to support the gen pop when you have literally no idea what the population is likely to be.

Whilst it's kinda first world, the most basic of rationale for consenting to be governed is that the Government acts in the interests of furthering the general well being and quality of life for it's citizens - part of that is a responsibility to balance supply and demand for services in reasonable timescales. A vote to stay appears to mitigate against that.

Probs take to the streets this affo
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« Reply #2675 on: June 10, 2016, 02:23:49 PM »

It's taken a while but I'm definitely voting out.

A vote for staying is primarily a vote for big business & banking and well, I just don't care much for them irrespective of the lolwealth and lolincreases in GDP they generate - if they could do without us as employees they would. Even if I cared about this or was concerned about this I would deal with it with a certain equanimity as the very reason big business is attracted here (the opportunity to exploit workers with Government consent) will continue to be the case for the foreseeable.

I think I'm increasingly persuaded by Tony Benn's commentary on Democracy from all those years ago and replayed earlier in this thread. I'm also persuaded that you can't make sensible economic and civil planning decisions that ensure the right kind of infrastructure exists to support the gen pop when you have literally no idea what the population is likely to be.

Whilst it's kinda first world, the most basic of rationale for consenting to be governed is that the Government acts in the interests of furthering the general well being and quality of life for it's citizens - part of that is a responsibility to balance supply and demand for services in reasonable timescales. A vote to stay appears to mitigate against that.

Probs take to the streets this affo


Will keep an eye out for you on Sky News Grin
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« Reply #2676 on: June 10, 2016, 02:48:49 PM »

I have been resolute in my decision to vote OUT from the start but I'm afraid to say William Hague has cast doubt into my mind! Friggin William Hague! Perhaps it's ok to be part of something and not like it at the same time. We have all turned into soothsayers who know exactly how this organic, constantly changing EU is going to shape up in the future. We definitely wont have any influence over the direction it travels by standing outside the room. We chat about immigration but I bet Merkel has refined her welcome mat views after recent events and EU leaders will undoubtedly re-think strategy. Maybe in a few years we will really lol want to join again? Maybe if we had a shit hot PM working on our behalf he/she could really influence the EU in our favour?

The road map of both decisions should have been plotted out for sure but the truth is nobody has a Scooby Do what will happen. Europe could flourish in union over the next 10 years or Europe could fail completely, it's unchartered waters, nobody can really say, it's a matter of impulse. For example just as I become undecided I hear that Wolfgang Schauble says we wont be allowed single market access if we leave and now I find myself firmly committed to leaving again. As the line approaches I'm wavering and confused. Don't know why house prices going down is a bad thing. Is that bad thing? I will consider all things and review all evidence but any more threats from the Germans and that's that I'm afraid!
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« Reply #2677 on: June 10, 2016, 02:51:48 PM »

Eddie Izzard is an utter cock.  So tilting. 

Oh man..Was awful..Never seen him appear on anything without mentioning he does shows in German & french and runs marathons. Worse kind of self absorbed narcissist and debates like a 3 year old



Anyone got a link?
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« Reply #2678 on: June 10, 2016, 02:57:08 PM »

I think I've been on the out camp from the very start. What has been interesting for me was having spent quite a lot of time over in Germany recently I don't I have met any Germans who want us to stay in. Obviously this is not a huge variety of Germans but what does amuse me is most of these work for a British company. The feeling I get is that the Germans are as fed up of Europe as we are, may be for different reasons, but the average German on the street wants us to leave just to see how it goes.
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« Reply #2679 on: June 10, 2016, 02:58:01 PM »



here
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« Reply #2680 on: June 10, 2016, 03:00:55 PM »

Might just be where I live/who I hang around with, but all the vocal, judgemental and aggressive voices have been for remain my end. Basically accusing anyone who expresses euro scepticism of being racist and/or a little englander.

Probably just my mates though.

I do agree with this statement although the one thing you missed off the list is 'unintelligent'. That one really hacks me off. Although it may be true in my case Smiley
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #2681 on: June 10, 2016, 03:07:48 PM »

same question another way

we are used to shy tories

we also had an element of shy unionist in the scottish campaign

is there a "shy remain" element at play here?

vote leave are more passionate (those wanting change going to be compared to those happy with the status quo), louder on social media?


as an aside, and i know the tory v tory stuff has been very unedifying but one Labour MP reported being on the stump in a northern town and

a) a majority of labour voters thought labour's official stance was to leave
b) an even bigger majority of labour working class voters they canvassed were leave (a lot on immigration grounds)  

Remain needs a solid labour vote to come out but with Corbyn so low profile and a lot of distraction on the tory battles i am not so sure it will

i am beginning to wonder!

The shy remain is the only reason remain is 75/25 in the betting. Can't be any other reason surely?

As for the Labour stance I would imagine the average working class labour voter who has no interest in politics on a day by day basis would assume Labour would stand for leave.   Protecting lower paid UK jobs from economic immigrants from the EU on a really simplistic view.

Is leave not a max bet then Arb?

In my head leave should be a small favourite, looking at the polls and which groups are going to be most motivated to vote?
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« Reply #2682 on: June 10, 2016, 03:09:04 PM »



For example just as I become undecided I hear that Wolfgang Schauble says we wont be allowed single market access if we leave and now I find myself firmly committed to leaving again.

You can't handle the truth
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« Reply #2683 on: June 10, 2016, 03:12:08 PM »

the average German on the street wants us to leave just to see how it goes.

What's the German word for schadenfreude?
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #2684 on: June 10, 2016, 03:19:04 PM »

Do we have a Blonde poll somewhere?

Most people on this thread seem to be leaning towards leave?
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