The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[doubleup]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

How much of RBS does the country still own?

80% I think.  LBG is a much smaller stake these days.  Without checking, less than 10%.

RBS 72%
LBG 9%

Sounds right, i forgot they sold some rbs at a loss.  

Saw the figures on bbc this morning.
Had been thinking of getting some shares when they next sold off too, obv that not happening now.
Anyone else currently scouting the share prices, looking at entry prices?  

Ladbrokes have fell nearly 20% in a week.  Doesn't seem to be any reason for this unless the roulette machines won't be stuffed with EU workers wages any more.  They look a very low risk buy at £1.10 given the coral merger is coming up.  Far less likely the machines get banned now as a post brexit government will need every possible source of tax revenue.  Ladbrokes earnings are far more dependent on machines than hills as their online business is so much weaker generally

Would agree, but Ladbrokes have just got worse and worse every year for ages.  They hsd their eye off the ball long before the merger distraction.  Guess they must turn at some point though. 

Another 4p off Lolbrokes shares this afternoon.  Down to £1.06 now

All the gib gaming companies are toast when gib gets thrown out of the eu.  The gib regulator basically becomes the curaco gaming commision.  All the gib finance companies are also toast without a passport to the eu.

btw I'm travelling but only catching up.  Has anyone suggested England and Wales simply leave the United Kingdom?  In the independence referendum we were quite clearly told by everyone in govt and in the eu, that if scotland became independent they would lose eu membership but rUK would be unaffected.  This must still apply surely?

[Doobs]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

How much of RBS does the country still own?

80% I think.  LBG is a much smaller stake these days.  Without checking, less than 10%.

RBS 72%
LBG 9%

Sounds right, i forgot they sold some rbs at a loss.  

Saw the figures on bbc this morning.
Had been thinking of getting some shares when they next sold off too, obv that not happening now.
Anyone else currently scouting the share prices, looking at entry prices?  

Ladbrokes have fell nearly 20% in a week.  Doesn't seem to be any reason for this unless the roulette machines won't be stuffed with EU workers wages any more.  They look a very low risk buy at £1.10 given the coral merger is coming up.  Far less likely the machines get banned now as a post brexit government will need every possible source of tax revenue.  Ladbrokes earnings are far more dependent on machines than hills as their online business is so much weaker generally

Would agree, but Ladbrokes have just got worse and worse every year for ages.  They hsd their eye off the ball long before the merger distraction.  Guess they must turn at some point though. 

Another 4p off Lolbrokes shares this afternoon.  Down to £1.06 now

All the gib gaming companies are toast when gib gets thrown out of the eu.  The gib regulator basically becomes the curaco gaming commision.  All the gib finance companies are also toast without a passport to the eu.

btw I'm travelling but only catching up.  Has anyone suggested England and Wales simply leave the United Kingdom?  In the independence referendum we were quite clearly told by everyone in govt and in the eu, that if scotland became independent they would lose eu membership but rUK would be unaffected.  This must still apply surely?

Kind of confused.   Surely the end result is England and Wales and rUK are all leaving the EU in that scenario?  And not sure Northern Ireland want to be part of that rUK anyway. 

[MANTIS01]

Live from the Foreign Office, John Kerry delivers sensible rhetoric which is a class above what I've heard so far after insisting that USA couldn't ask for a better friend and ally than the UK. That's the UK peoples...

"Whilst this is not the result we looked for it reflects the will of the people. And we respect that. That is the essence of democracy. But so too is leadership. We have immense confidence in the quality of leadership on both sides of the channel to manage the transition in a thoughtful, sensible and strategic manner. Whilst there is some uncertainty in the air leaders have the ability, individual people have the ability and the responsibility to restore certainty by making wise choices in the days ahead. Considered, thoughtful choices that bring people together. One thing is certain and that's we will be stronger moving forward together." 

I hope little Nikki Sturgeon was watching. Leaders have the ability and responsibility to restore certainty. Got that Nikki!

Also the Corbyn fiasco just gets more amazing/amusing as each hour goes by...

[doubleup]

Has anyone suggested England and Wales simply leave the United Kingdom?  In the independence referendum we were quite clearly told by everyone in govt and in the eu, that if scotland became independent they would lose eu membership but rUK would be unaffected.  This must still apply surely?

Kind of confused.   Surely the end result is England and Wales and rUK are all leaving the EU in that scenario?  And not sure Northern Ireland want to be part of that rUK anyway. 

The legal position stated re scotland and catalonia is that the breakaway region loses eu membership (ignoring ni for the time being as there is an alternative)- so if england and wales are in some way manouevred to be the breakaway region, they are out of the eu.  I'm obviously being whimsical here, but it is a valid point that the EU have clearly stated that part of a member country can stay in the EU after a split.

[Doobs]

Has anyone suggested England and Wales simply leave the United Kingdom?  In the independence referendum we were quite clearly told by everyone in govt and in the eu, that if scotland became independent they would lose eu membership but rUK would be unaffected.  This must still apply surely?

Kind of confused.   Surely the end result is England and Wales and rUK are all leaving the EU in that scenario?  And not sure Northern Ireland want to be part of that rUK anyway. 

The legal position stated re scotland and catalonia is that the breakaway region loses eu membership (ignoring ni for the time being as there is an alternative)- so if england and wales are in some way manouevred to be the breakaway region, they are out of the eu.  I'm obviously being whimsical here, but it is a valid point that the EU have clearly stated that part of a member country can stay in the EU after a split.

Ok, but there is no desire in England to split up the Union.  There is a vocal minority, but weren't the polls like 80/20 for Scotland to stay amongst the English when the last referendum happened? 

[Marky_Crash]

Seeing a lot of 'rallying the troops' type of speaches today from Cameron, Boris & Osborne and others with little/no substance.

Is that the best plan we have now? Does anyone have any idea what we are aiming to do when we all join hands and sing kumbaya?

Is there even a remotely coherent plan that leave are hoping we get behind?

Are the EU immigrants living in the UK to join in this unity behind the yet to be defined plan?

Will this unity solve the Scottish issue?

Will it solve the NI issue?

Will it square the circle and make it possible for the UK to somehow be part of the 'single market' without paying what we already were in fees anyway like Norway has to and all the while somehow allowing all the UK people travel, live and work in the EU while we are allowed to put hugely restrictive border controls on people from the very place we want to go to and trade freely with?

Will this proposed unity bring about a recovery in sterling and the global markets as the ROW think, hey nobody knows what the .... is going on but they are all in it together, lets invest in the UK!

It feels to me like a large section of the politicians are letting both the 'remain' and 'leave' sides down by how completely lost and without a plan.

I don't know what this situation needs to help it be resolved favourably but a 'lets all rally together' speach seems to fall short IMO.

[redsimon]

Miliband

the labour party didn't elect him in 2010 as his brother was more socialist, ionce which point the party membership is more left wing still

so difficult to see how he could get back in in a senior position even if he decided to come back and won a by-election

If, blue sky thinking, another central-sdp type party emerges from all of this with a configuration of one nation tories and labour right, then he'd be a great leader of that. but he has to come back first

i am a big fan, and have never voted labour in my life

Not seen if this has been picked up on? but, David got more votes than Ed from Individual members at every stage in 2010, Trade Union vortes got ED over the line.
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/leaders/labour2010.htm

[BigAdz]

Miliband

the labour party didn't elect him in 2010 as his brother was more socialist, ionce which point the party membership is more left wing still

so difficult to see how he could get back in in a senior position even if he decided to come back and won a by-election

If, blue sky thinking, another central-sdp type party emerges from all of this with a configuration of one nation tories and labour right, then he'd be a great leader of that. but he has to come back first

i am a big fan, and have never voted labour in my life

Not seen if this has been picked up on? but, David got more votes than Ed from Individual members at every stage in 2010, Trade Union vortes got ED over the line.
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/leaders/labour2010.htm

It just occurs to me, especially having debated it in the office today, that barely a political soul is coming out of this with any credit, and even staunch Tories were shrugging shoulders, with almost a "well maybe" when I mentioned Milliband coming back, being a potential long term solution.

Small sample admittedly, but surprising nonetheless.

[PokerBroker]

I'd say Sturgeon has come out of it pretty much as the only one with any decency.  It may not have been what the English wanted to hear or see, but she has been consistent.  Even all the pro Union papers that were against her at every turn during the referendum and since she has been leader seem to be onside.  Even our opposition up here seem to be onside with her. 

Jim Sillars as well has been pretty decent, making quite a lot of fair comment, granted he is no longer an active politician but he does speak much sense. 

In general though the big parties have been sadly lacking in leadership and continuity.  Even if you aren't strong, you have to at least put a face on and say right lets get back to work.  The majosity if not the whole political establishment have been caught asleep at the wheel. 

[Doobs]

I'd say Sturgeon has come out of it pretty much as the only one with any decency.  It may not have been what the English wanted to hear or see, but she has been consistent.  Even all the pro Union papers that were against her at every turn during the referendum and since she has been leader seem to be onside.  Even our opposition up here seem to be onside with her. 

Jim Sillars as well has been pretty decent, making quite a lot of fair comment, granted he is no longer an active politician but he does speak much sense. 

In general though the big parties have been sadly lacking in leadership and continuity.  Even if you aren't strong, you have to at least put a face on and say right lets get back to work.  The majosity if not the whole political establishment have been caught asleep at the wheel. 

Sturgeon has done absolutely fine. It is the rest.

Corbyn posting pictures of himself on twitter standing in front  of a bunch of Socialist worker placards today.  Such an imbecile. 

[MANTIS01]

I think Sturgeon has done absolutely fine. If Scotland is an independent country.

If Scotland is part of the UK she has been tez and scandalous.

[DaveShoelace]

Corbyn posting pictures of himself on twitter standing in front  of a bunch of Socialist worker placards today.  Such an imbecile. 

Looks like he has gone 'full commie' on his twitter profile, may as well now really given he is running the party into the ground.

[aaron1867]

I think Sturgeon has done absolutely fine. If Scotland is an independent country.

If Scotland is part of the UK she has been tez and scandalous.

Does she not grate on you? Everything is based on independence. Yeah, more Scots want to remain in, but she makes our as if the vote was 100% to stay, when it was 60/40. It's quite boring for her to make out she is the sole voice for Scotland all the time...

[PokerBroker]

I think Sturgeon has done absolutely fine. If Scotland is an independent country.

If Scotland is part of the UK she has been tez and scandalous.

Does she not grate on you? Everything is based on independence. Yeah, more Scots want to remain in, but she makes our as if the vote was 100% to stay, when it was 60/40. It's quite boring for her to make out she is the sole voice for Scotland all the time...

Does she? Never comes across like that to me, she does grate sometimes but not for those reading.  I think it was 62/38 btw but probably more importantly for them every region voted to stay.

[TightEnd]

daily bookmark dump coming

it hasn't slowed down much