The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[The Camel]

Is knowledge knowing that a tomato is a fruit but wisdom knowing not to put it in the fruit salad?

No. Knowledge is knowing when someone is trolling but wisdom is knowing not to argue with them.

You troll me relentlessly despite me asking you politely on more than one occasion to ignore my posts.

I have no idea why I annoy you so much, but I am not going to change my outlook on life just to please you.

I don't know why you assume I was referring to you, but there's a simple solution, just ignore my posts.

I dunno, maybe "Oh, sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion. I'll leave you to it." made me think you were referring to me.

[RED-DOG]

Is knowledge knowing that a tomato is a fruit but wisdom knowing not to put it in the fruit salad?

No. Knowledge is knowing when someone is trolling but wisdom is knowing not to argue with them.

You troll me relentlessly despite me asking you politely on more than one occasion to ignore my posts.

I have no idea why I annoy you so much, but I am not going to change my outlook on life just to please you.

I don't know why you assume I was referring to you, but there's a simple solution, just ignore my posts.

I dunno, maybe "Oh, sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion. I'll leave you to it." made me think you were referring to me.

Well maybe I thought "My definition of thick is someone who votes in a referendum for something which is clearly against his and his families best interest" was not a serious answer.


Just for clarity, (although I'm sure I've said this before) this is a public forum, I have absolutely no intention of ignoring your posts, If I have an opposite opinion to yours I will post it, if I have a question for you, I will ask it.

[DaveShoelace]

Lads, just whip em out, see whose is biggest, and move on.

[The Camel]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

That's really funny.

You have just contradicted your first statement with your second.

So people don't vote for the policies which they agree with. They vote for the man who can eat a bacon sandwich without looking silly.

You made my point for me. Thanks.

My point was all elections usually result for the wrong reason, the one time people show any passion they are dismissed as thick. The electorate as a whole are thick/ignorant to the reality, because experts only say what they do for self serving reasons.

You dont really have any points camel, you believe what you have been spoonfed, and because youve been told it, you believe anyone who doesnt believe what we were told is stupid or thick.

Yeah, we are fed up with those stupid experts feeding us with facts and details.

Trusting gut instinct, irrational fears and the way the wind is currently blowing is a far more reliable way to get the result you want in a plebiscite.

So called experts have already made up their mind, are speaking on someone behalf or are financially attached to their result.

LOL irrational fears, like paranoia? Same person whos spent the last 3 pages demeaning the leave supporters over a decision that has already happened.

Irrational fears. Like the Sunderland electorate who voted to leave because they were afraid an immigrant would take their job.

The immigrant population in Sunderland is less than 3%.

The Nissan plant in Sunderland relies on EU funding and is likely to relocate once the UK leaves the EU. Losing more jobs than if every immigrant took a job from a UK worker in Sunderland.

I think that counts as an irrational fear.

Do you not feel places like nissan cause resentment? If lets say most stuff is minimum wage and then theres nissan where everyones on 20K plus and beyond with real conditions and chance to improve, youve got nissan staff reasonably happy and the rest not associated with them resentful towards them. Think there are in some places a sad state of affairs where people would like to level people, even if its in the shit.

I work with people who have zero immigrant pressure on their individual jobs but they feel the pressure of having them in the workers pool. If you cant go anywhere as the markets swelled with eastern europeans in roles that may otherwise be open, it allows your employer to react according. Theres far more blame to be put at the door of employers then has currently been.

Big, multi national companies are never perfect.

But in areas of extreme deprevation, they represent the best hope of regeneration available.

British manufacturing industry is on its knees, has been for 30 years or more. Steel, mining, car making, ship building. You name it, and it has been decimated.

We have got this "freedom" and as the Brexiteers so proudly say "Britain is open for business!"

Problem is we've got nothing to sell.

[RED-DOG]

Lads, just whip em out, see whose is biggest, and move on.

 

Despite what he thinks, I like Keith, It's just that our opinions and posting styles always seem to clash.

[The Camel]

Is knowledge knowing that a tomato is a fruit but wisdom knowing not to put it in the fruit salad?

No. Knowledge is knowing when someone is trolling but wisdom is knowing not to argue with them.

You troll me relentlessly despite me asking you politely on more than one occasion to ignore my posts.

I have no idea why I annoy you so much, but I am not going to change my outlook on life just to please you.

I don't know why you assume I was referring to you, but there's a simple solution, just ignore my posts.

I dunno, maybe "Oh, sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion. I'll leave you to it." made me think you were referring to me.

Well maybe I thought "My definition of thick is someone who votes in a referendum for something which is clearly against his and his families best interest" was not a serious answer.


Just for clarity, (although I'm sure I've said this before) this is a public forum, I have absolutely no intention of ignoring your posts, If I have an opposite opinion to yours I will post it, if I have a question for you, I will ask it.

I have no problem with people who disagree with me. DungBeetle and RickBFA couldn't have be much more polar opposite with their views on politics. Yet my interaction with them always manages to be cordial yet robust.

You seem to always want to make sly little personal digs. As I said earlier I don't know why you do it.

You drove me off the forum once for 6 months, but I came to realise how much I enjoyed posting here, so I won't let you do it again.

[PokerBroker]

Isn't it totally short termism to say that those from poor backgrounds voting Out were voting against their and their families best interests?  

We don't yet know what the future holds.  As for mentiioning the CBI and the IMF as if they are impartial and on the side of the poor that is just lol.  

Also not every major union was on the side of remain.  

There is nothing like framing the facts to suit your own agenda.  

[The Camel]

Isn't it totally short termism to say that those from poor backgrounds voting Out were voting against their and their families best interests?  

We don't yet know what the future holds.  As for mentiioning the CBI and the IMF as if they are impartial and on the side of the poor that is just lol.  

Also not every major union was on the side of remain.  

There is nothing like framing the facts to suit your own agenda.  

Obviously no one knows what the outcome will be. Probably won't be able to frame a definitive opinion on that in our lifetimes.

But, like betting on a horse race, we take all the evidence we can and make the best decision possible.

If we had a Jeremy Corbyn led government, I have no doubt leaving the EU would be beneficial to the Sunderland voters who chose to leave.

With the extreme right wing governments we are facing now and in the immediate future (probably the long term future too if we face reality), workers rights, women's rights, racial equality and human rights will all be diminshed to some extent or another.

[RED-DOG]

Is knowledge knowing that a tomato is a fruit but wisdom knowing not to put it in the fruit salad?

No. Knowledge is knowing when someone is trolling but wisdom is knowing not to argue with them.

You troll me relentlessly despite me asking you politely on more than one occasion to ignore my posts.

I have no idea why I annoy you so much, but I am not going to change my outlook on life just to please you.

I don't know why you assume I was referring to you, but there's a simple solution, just ignore my posts.

I dunno, maybe "Oh, sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion. I'll leave you to it." made me think you were referring to me.

Well maybe I thought "My definition of thick is someone who votes in a referendum for something which is clearly against his and his families best interest" was not a serious answer.


Just for clarity, (although I'm sure I've said this before) this is a public forum, I have absolutely no intention of ignoring your posts, If I have an opposite opinion to yours I will post it, if I have a question for you, I will ask it.

I have no problem with people who disagree with me. DungBeetle and RickBFA couldn't have be much more polar opposite with their views on politics. Yet my interaction with them always manages to be cordial yet robust.

You seem to always want to make sly little personal digs. As I said earlier I don't know why you do it.

You drove me off the forum once for 6 months, but I came to realise how much I enjoyed posting here, so I won't let you do it again.

That's just not true though. We had differing opinions. As far as I can remember you said old people shouldn't be allowed to vote and I didn't agree with you. You couldn't get your own way so you sulked for 6 months.

If I'm wrong please link me to what ever it is you are referring to and I will look at it again and re evaluate.

[JohnCharver]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

That's really funny.

You have just contradicted your first statement with your second.

So people don't vote for the policies which they agree with. They vote for the man who can eat a bacon sandwich without looking silly.

You made my point for me. Thanks.

My point was all elections usually result for the wrong reason, the one time people show any passion they are dismissed as thick. The electorate as a whole are thick/ignorant to the reality, because experts only say what they do for self serving reasons.

You dont really have any points camel, you believe what you have been spoonfed, and because youve been told it, you believe anyone who doesnt believe what we were told is stupid or thick.

Yeah, we are fed up with those stupid experts feeding us with facts and details.

Trusting gut instinct, irrational fears and the way the wind is currently blowing is a far more reliable way to get the result you want in a plebiscite.

So called experts have already made up their mind, are speaking on someone behalf or are financially attached to their result.

LOL irrational fears, like paranoia? Same person whos spent the last 3 pages demeaning the leave supporters over a decision that has already happened.

Irrational fears. Like the Sunderland electorate who voted to leave because they were afraid an immigrant would take their job.

The immigrant population in Sunderland is less than 3%.

The Nissan plant in Sunderland relies on EU funding and is likely to relocate once the UK leaves the EU. Losing more jobs than if every immigrant took a job from a UK worker in Sunderland.

I think that counts as an irrational fear.

Do you not feel places like nissan cause resentment? If lets say most stuff is minimum wage and then theres nissan where everyones on 20K plus and beyond with real conditions and chance to improve, youve got nissan staff reasonably happy and the rest not associated with them resentful towards them. Think there are in some places a sad state of affairs where people would like to level people, even if its in the shit.

I work with people who have zero immigrant pressure on their individual jobs but they feel the pressure of having them in the workers pool. If you cant go anywhere as the markets swelled with eastern europeans in roles that may otherwise be open, it allows your employer to react according. Theres far more blame to be put at the door of employers then has currently been.

Big, multi national companies are never perfect.

But in areas of extreme deprevation, they represent the best hope of regeneration available.

British manufacturing industry is on its knees, has been for 30 years or more. Steel, mining, car making, ship building. You name it, and it has been decimated.

We have got this "freedom" and as the Brexiteers so proudly say "Britain is open for business!"

Problem is we've got nothing to sell.

Theres alot of businesses pushing the line and playing on conditions as if its worse than it is (well maybe was). If they were paying in line with what they should people wouldnt be looking for problems in the labour market to the level they are now. Then when a "business leader" comes out and says brexit is shit for us, these people project their company boss onto this person, knowing that their boss only has the company in mind. So you would call this guy an expert while they see them as the type who causes their problem.

Nissan isnt one of them, but they bleat about all the time with no intention of leaving, just a play for more grants, read again siemens.

[JohnCharver]

Isn't it totally short termism to say that those from poor backgrounds voting Out were voting against their and their families best interests?  

We don't yet know what the future holds.  As for mentiioning the CBI and the IMF as if they are impartial and on the side of the poor that is just lol.  

Also not every major union was on the side of remain.  

There is nothing like framing the facts to suit your own agenda.  

Obviously no one knows what the outcome will be. Probably won't be able to frame a definitive opinion on that in our lifetimes.

But, like betting on a horse race, we take all the evidence we can and make the best decision possible.

If we had a Jeremy Corbyn led government, I have no doubt leaving the EU would be beneficial to the Sunderland voters who chose to leave.

With the extreme right wing governments we are facing now and in the immediate future (probably the long term future too if we face reality), workers rights, women's rights, racial equality and human rights will all be diminshed to some extent or another.

Theres a chance for the far right to take workers votes, why would they stick it to them?

[david3103]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

That's really funny.

You have just contradicted your first statement with your second.

So people don't vote for the policies which they agree with. They vote for the man who can eat a bacon sandwich without looking silly.

You made my point for me. Thanks.

My point was all elections usually result for the wrong reason, the one time people show any passion they are dismissed as thick. The electorate as a whole are thick/ignorant to the reality, because experts only say what they do for self serving reasons.

You dont really have any points camel, you believe what you have been spoonfed, and because youve been told it, you believe anyone who doesnt believe what we were told is stupid or thick.

Yeah, we are fed up with those stupid experts feeding us with facts and details.

Trusting gut instinct, irrational fears and the way the wind is currently blowing is a far more reliable way to get the result you want in a plebiscite.

So called experts have already made up their mind, are speaking on someone behalf or are financially attached to their result.

LOL irrational fears, like paranoia? Same person whos spent the last 3 pages demeaning the leave supporters over a decision that has already happened.

Irrational fears. Like the Sunderland electorate who voted to leave because they were afraid an immigrant would take their job.

The immigrant population in Sunderland is less than 3%.

The Nissan plant in Sunderland relies on EU funding and is likely to relocate once the UK leaves the EU. Losing more jobs than if every immigrant took a job from a UK worker in Sunderland.

I think that counts as an irrational fear.

I gather you read http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/sunderland-how-labour-city-became-one-of-the-uks-most-eurosceptic

I have to say that the few people quoted do appear to have made decisions using less than a full deck. But this was in The Guardian and was unlikely to ever offer a balanced view.


Nissan's faith in the longevity of the North East Male is impressive btw, a 57 yr old apprentice? Whatever next.

PS The immigrant population in Sunderland is given as 3.6% in the article.

PPS pretty sure we can find lots of examples of thick people choosing bad reasons to vote remain too if we wanted to.

PPPS even more certain that we can find some ignorant politicians on both sides too. Ultimately, no matter what you may think of those who voted Leave, the failing was not theirs. The fault lies with the politicians who have ignored genuine concerns about EU migrants over the past 10 years or so, and concerns over the growth of Federal ambition within the EU for over 20 years.

[david3103]

Extreme right wing government?

I don't see much in the attitudes of the declared candidates that makes them extreme anything.

[MANTIS01]

I figure one of the driving forces behind the Brexit vote was that people weren't being listened to, their issues not being considered with any great vigour. So now the people have spoken I figure continuing to not listen to them is pretty 'thick' as it goes. 

[The Camel]

Isn't it totally short termism to say that those from poor backgrounds voting Out were voting against their and their families best interests?  

We don't yet know what the future holds.  As for mentiioning the CBI and the IMF as if they are impartial and on the side of the poor that is just lol.  

Also not every major union was on the side of remain.  

There is nothing like framing the facts to suit your own agenda.  

Obviously no one knows what the outcome will be. Probably won't be able to frame a definitive opinion on that in our lifetimes.

But, like betting on a horse race, we take all the evidence we can and make the best decision possible.

If we had a Jeremy Corbyn led government, I have no doubt leaving the EU would be beneficial to the Sunderland voters who chose to leave.

With the extreme right wing governments we are facing now and in the immediate future (probably the long term future too if we face reality), workers rights, women's rights, racial equality and human rights will all be diminshed to some extent or another.

Theres a chance for the far right to take workers votes, why would they stick it to them?

This is a very good point, which I have never considered before.

I might have to fumigate it before opening it, but UKIPs manifesto before the next election will be interesting reading.

Max freedom for the entrepreneur usually means the worker gets screwed royally.