The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[doubleup]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

[doubleup]

btw the UK could deport any non-selfsufficient EU citizen after three months.  Many other countries do it.

[kukushkin88]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Not just fantasy but Mail/Express/Sun fantasy. If you believe their narrative, everything you think you know has the (lesser known) Timeform  ‘double’ squiggle.

[booder]

I apologise.

I feel strongly about this, but no excuse.

sorry.

rest stands :-)

Tighty you are a great guy, you don’t owe anyone anything on this thread, let alone an apology. The situation with your daughter is terrible, I don’t really know what to say but I admire your courage in dealing with it and I wish both you all the best. Is there anything we as a (BP) community can do to help?

 

[BigAdz]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Substitute Nigerian for Romanian for pendants.

[doubleup]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Substitute Nigerian for Romanian for pendants.

hmmm and in any case

btw the UK could deport any non-selfsufficient EU citizen after three months.  Many other countries do it.

[kukushkin88]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Substitute Nigerian for Romanian for pendants.

Pedantry is a terrible waste of time, this has nothing to do with pedantry though.

[BigAdz]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Not just fantasy but Mail/Express/Sun fantasy. If you believe their narrative, everything you think you know has the (lesser known) Timeform  ‘double’ squiggle.

You are becoming a laughable figure with your one dimensional comments.

I spend my working life travelling the world  and working in construction projects around the world, mainly developing areas.

I get to see first hand living conditions in many of the countries I quote, I doubt you get much beyond Frinton on Sea.

We would all love to live in a better place, but sometimes these are the cards we are dealt. A roof, a job, and food is all we need.

I see people and hear tales of people that have all this even paying savings(numbers that many folk on here would be please to have) to try and get into Europe for a better life. They give up a solid lifestyle in their own country to knowingly sponge off others. Those are the people I want to stop. Not people who genuinely have something to offer. But you wont read/digest the last bit, because you already have me tagged.

I would love to live like royalty, but I dont jump on the National Express and camp outside Buck House to do it

[kukushkin88]

Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

And (ignoring that it is a fantasy) what has Nigeria got to do with the EU?

Not just fantasy but Mail/Express/Sun fantasy. If you believe their narrative, everything you think you know has the (lesser known) Timeform  ‘double’ squiggle.

You are becoming a laughable figure with your one dimensional comments.

I spend my working life travelling the world  and working in construction projects around the world, mainly developing areas.

I get to see first hand living conditions in many of the countries I quote, I doubt you get much beyond Frinton on Sea.

We would all love to live in a better place, but sometimes these are the cards we are dealt. A roof, a job, and food is all we need.

I see people and hear tales of people that have all this even paying savings(numbers that many folk on here would be please to have) to try and get into Europe for a better life. They give up a solid lifestyle in their own country to knowingly sponge off others. Those are the people I want to stop. Not people who genuinely have something to offer. But you wont read/digest the last bit, because you already have me tagged.

I would love to live like royalty, but I dont jump on the National Express and camp outside Buck House to do it

There’s not much that I’m certain about....you’ve misjudged and underrated me though.

[nirvana]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

oh i have looked and i listen. I also post all sorts of articles. Again, if they are just "here he goes again" from you and others i will stop. Really,why spend my time doing it?

the main thing i find from listening to Rees-Mogg and others is positives are "taking back control" and a greater sense of national identity,this from the him and sensible leavers rather than those who primarily see it as an anti-immigration vehicle and at its worst xenophobia and racism

Compared to the downsides, which are many and clear, i think they are in cloud cuckoo land

Unfortunately many people voted leave as a vote against the political class status quo,particularly working class people feeling threatened and left behind. Undoubtedly genuine reasons which have been discussed a lot. I don't think Brexit solves these concerns, and in that its highly likely especially in a hard brexit scenario to lead to far higher unemployment makes the rationale for those votes even more flawed.   

Interesting that you think Brexit will lead to higher unemployment. I think there may be some stresses but it would have to be catastrophic for their to be significantly higher unemployment.

Also think that Government policy will be the main driver rather than Brexit or not. A lot of the remain side seem to talk up a crisis around employee shortages as a result of freedom of movement being scrapped and so the remain argument tends to threaten employee shortages and higher unemployment.

That does feel rather silly unless there's a very finely nuanced debate around availability of specific types of skills.

it's great that you post and I think you're a little sensitive about the responses which I'm pretty sure are never personal - there's probably a quiet majority here that agree with you and don't feel the need to echo the things you post or opinions you give. It's only the flat earthers here that feel compelled to put a different view forward re peaches etc

[nirvana]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

[kukushkin88]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

[nirvana]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

My wife is a Sister in the major Oxford hospital. Ask her and her colleagues why the NHS is struggling and it is because of the amount of non uk or newly resident folk filling up the corridors .

Snowflakes would be up in arms at such a statement, but that is the word from the front line

My daughter is currently being treated by the NHS, they are having huge trouble recruiting staff, previously sourced the world over.

Many of the non UK nationals treating her are dedicated, hard working and kind. Several (can't say more than that, as i haven't spoken to them) are fearful of their life here after Brexit, whether they will stay/can stay etc

waiting lists and resourcing are also huge issues. waiting lists aren't helped by difficulty in recruiting staff

your term "snowflakes" is an insult really, meant as such and taken as such. Fuck off

Just as a point of fact - NHS staff are still recruited the world over and that hasn't changed. nor will it change for obvious reasons. I posted a few months ago to show that vacancies in the NHS are moreor less on par with historical levels so something else is going on that impacts service /care levels.

Fwiw, take your ticket completely about dedicated/kind etc but differ on peoples views - in my office at work we have Polish, French, Czech engineers and none of them are fearful of their life here after Brexit and why should they be after clear statements saying they can stay, moreover, we want them to stay

[RickBFA]

Meanwhile there seems to be a much more sensible tone in recent days.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45768848

Hopefully there will be some common sense prevailing in next couple of months.

[nirvana]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

I'd say both countries have always had fairly tight rules - not easy for a Brit to settle in either of these countries