The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Sheriff Fatman]

BBC and ITV competing to host the Brexit May/Corbyn "vote on the deal" debate next Sunday

There is no point to this debate, on these terms, with these two people?

At a bare minimum it requires one Brexit-supporting opponent of the deal and one fully-fledged Remainer.

Boris or Rees-Mogg say?

Chukka or Cable or Sturgeon say?

what does Corbyn v May,both arguing two sides of the same view do for us?

I'm genuinely perplexed by the TV debate thing.

I think they should be an essential part of a General Election campaign, and Theresa May is the only party leader not backing the #makedebateshappen campaign, as far as I'm aware.  However, she's desperate to have one on this issue, where there's no public vote at the end of it, and on an issue where Corbyn isn't necessarily the most valid opponent to be debating with.

To me, it's a pointless and the only logical end-game I can see in both of them doing it is that they're hoping it's an opportunity for political point-scoring between them.  I'm struggling to see how it's realistically going to stay on the topic of Brexit, rather than being a methodology by which they attack general policies.  Car crash viewing, undoubtedly, but not relevant to the matter at hand, which is out of the control of anyone other than 650 MPs at the moment.

[RED-DOG]

if you asked French people how many object to the flying of the tricolour it would be almost nobody.

That wasn't the original question.

Correct. I’m proposing a new one.

In fact I’m proposing an even newer one. Substitute French for American.

I think quite a few American people would object to flying the tricolour.

[MANTIS01]

if you asked French people how many object to the flying of the tricolour it would be almost nobody.

That wasn't the original question.

Fair point.  Mantis loves to build his straw men.

It is some of the people, not the flag itself.   A bit like supporting the England team without liking all their fans. 

People have a different view of the Union Jack than the England flag.  It is viewed more positively than the England flag, so I don't think the tricolour is a good comparator either.

I make up my own mind what flying a flag means and it’s a big positive

The majority of Remain are saying they allow a minority to negatively influence how they feel about it

Interesting really. I want to carve my own path, make my own decisions. Remain want to be lead, influenced by others.

[Doobs]

if you asked French people how many object to the flying of the tricolour it would be almost nobody.

That wasn't the original question.

Correct. I’m proposing a new one.

In fact I’m proposing an even newer one. Substitute French for American.

You think 100% of Americans are against NFL players kneeling during whilst someone sings the star-spangled banner?

Easy game this.

[BigAdz]

if you asked French people how many object to the flying of the tricolour it would be almost nobody.

That wasn't the original question.

Fair point.  Mantis loves to build his straw men.

It is some of the people, not the flag itself.   A bit like supporting the England team without liking all their fans. 

People have a different view of the Union Jack than the England flag.  It is viewed more positively than the England flag, so I don't think the tricolour is a good comparator either.

I make up my own mind what flying a flag means and it’s a big positive

The majority of Remain are saying they allow a minority to negatively influence how they feel about it

Interesting really. I want to carve my own path, make my own decisions. Remain want to be lead, influenced by others.

Pointless arguing mate
the remainers are made up of so many different nationalities these days,  the minority is probably the total number of born and bred  Brits left.

[TightEnd]

if you asked French people how many object to the flying of the tricolour it would be almost nobody.

That wasn't the original question.

Fair point.  Mantis loves to build his straw men.

It is some of the people, not the flag itself.   A bit like supporting the England team without liking all their fans. 

People have a different view of the Union Jack than the England flag.  It is viewed more positively than the England flag, so I don't think the tricolour is a good comparator either.

I make up my own mind what flying a flag means and it’s a big positive

The majority of Remain are saying they allow a minority to negatively influence how they feel about it

Interesting really. I want to carve my own path, make my own decisions. Remain want to be lead, influenced by others.

Pointless arguing mate
the remainers are made up of so many different nationalities these days,  the minority is probably the total number of born and bred  Brits left.

pure xenophobia. Unnecessary and offensive really.

think you'll find both leave and remain are both a wide range of people of all colours, faiths and ages and yet you seek to take things down to the basest assumption

[BigAdz]

Humour bypass time again.

Really must remember those smileys for the sensitive.

[Sheriff Fatman]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

[TightEnd]

Humour bypass time again.

Really must remember those smileys for the sensitive.

if it was remotely amusing i wouldn't have responded

of course you meant it seriously, you have form!

[TightEnd]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

you gov, 1012 UK adults

[RED-DOG]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

We have one, (That I know of) BNP member in our village, he flies an England flag in his front garden.

[Doobs]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

I am pretty happy to see lots of England flags flown and on cars during the World cup, I am a bit more wary of somebody who has an England flag covering their roof in November.   I suspect if you split the question between roof man in November and flag wearer in the World Cup, you'd get a significantly different split of positives and negatives.

As I said before the GB flag has fewer negative connotations; I can't remember anyone launching into "Two World Wars and one World Cup" at the olympics and you see a lot more England flags when warm cuddly racists go out for one of their gentle strolls through English cities.

[MANTIS01]

Why would Irish, Scottish or Welsh have an unfavourable view of an English family displaying their flag? Would the same people have an unfavourable view of an Italian family displaying their flag? I would say not. But we are now drilling into the meat & drink of the problem. Europe hate on the English. The rest of the UK hate on the English. And half of the English hate on themselves. As a starting point for negotiations that's a tough gig.

[MANTIS01]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

I am pretty happy to see lots of England flags flown and on cars during the World cup, I am a bit more wary of somebody who has an England flag covering their roof in November.   I suspect if you split the question between roof man in November and flag wearer in the World Cup, you'd get a significantly different split of positives and negatives.

As I said before the GB flag has fewer negative connotations; I can't remember anyone launching into "Two World Wars and one World Cup" at the olympics and you see a lot more England flags when warm cuddly racists go out for one of their gentle strolls through English cities.

We had the same problem during the 80's where all England football fans were branded hooligans.

I don't think it's fair to tar all people with the same brush due to the actions of an ugly minority.

If you agree with that why do you or indeed the 60% have negative opinions about the majority of good people displaying their flag. Aren't you supporting the negativity?

It's like the stupidity that allows people to think all Muslims are terrorists. You are wary of a stranger with the flag on their roof in the same way others are wary of a Muslim with a rucksack on his back. It's nonsense and we need to fight against such negative stereotyping.

[Doobs]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

I am pretty happy to see lots of England flags flown and on cars during the World cup, I am a bit more wary of somebody who has an England flag covering their roof in November.   I suspect if you split the question between roof man in November and flag wearer in the World Cup, you'd get a significantly different split of positives and negatives.

As I said before the GB flag has fewer negative connotations; I can't remember anyone launching into "Two World Wars and one World Cup" at the olympics and you see a lot more England flags when warm cuddly racists go out for one of their gentle strolls through English cities.

We had the same problem during the 80's where all England football fans were branded hooligans.

I don't think it's fair to tar all people with the same brush due to the actions of an ugly minority.

If you agree with that why do you or indeed the 60% have negative opinions about the majority of good people displaying their flag. Aren't you supporting the negativity?

It's like the stupidity that allows people to think all Muslims are terrorists. You are wary of a stranger with the flag on their roof in the same way others are wary of a Muslim with a rucksack on his back. It's nonsense and we need to fight against such negative stereotyping.

There you go again, I am not sterotying the English, or football fans.

I don't think it is fair to tar everyone with the same brush; I made it pretty clear that I thought the "two world wars" singers were in the minority these days.   

Roof man is an exception, and I have a negative view of him.   The original question could be answered yes, no or maybe, but would definitely be no for flag flyers during the World Cup and definitely yes for roof man.  Suspect his flag has blown away today anyway.  Sad times.