The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Labour is 6 points behind a Government openly toying with inflicting food and drug shortages on its own population.

CON: 40% (-1)
LAB: 34% (-5)
LDEM: 10% (+3)
GRN: 4% (-)
UKIP: 4% (+1)

via YouGov, 21 Dec - 04 Jan
Chgs. w/ 17 Dec

[TightEnd]

Peston

"Ministers tell me that may will lose the meaningful vote on Brexit in ten days but that none of them have a clue what she will do then. This is serious"

https://www.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2248533055471427/

[TightEnd]

He says PM's unable to choose between no-deal Brexit and a referendum, but she must have a preference

[TightEnd]

New YouGov poll of 25,000 people: Labour would suffer a worse election defeat than it did under Michael Foot if it enables Brexit. Labour support would plummet to 26% if Jeremy Corbyn tells his MPs to back Theresa May’s Brexit deal, the poll says.

Meanwhile this finding from the poll suggests Theresa May’s *entire* central premise for the way she has pursued her brexit negotiation - immigration control prioritised over  trade - doesn’t have overwhelming public support

[TightEnd]

YouGov poll:

In a new in-out referendum, Brits would vote to stay in the EU by 54% to 46%.

In a choice between Remain and May’s deal, Remain would win by 63% to 37%.

[TightEnd]

Riverford are devon farmers

https://twitter.com/Riverford/status/1081479238522466309

"It'd be the worst time: late April/May is the hungry gap, when the winter crops have finished & summer crops aren't yet ready. We have so little ready to harvest that we have to temporarily stop our UK Only veg box, because we often don't have 8 British vegetables to fill it with"

[TightEnd]

No-deal Brexit would be catastrophic for UK farmers, warns NFU

(as does Gove,pace his speech last week(

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/04/no-deal-brexit-would-be-catastrophic-uk-farmers-warns-nfu

[RED-DOG]

PS - I think it's pretty disappointing to see that this topic has mainly come to people posting links. Can we not engge without the help of other peoples opinions, if not, then what's the point of this forum?

Aaron has totally missed the point here, it's the links that promote the discussion plus the fact that I/we would miss loads of interesting stuff without them.

Keep posting Rich.

[DaveShoelace]

PS - I think it's pretty disappointing to see that this topic has mainly come to people posting links. Can we not engge without the help of other peoples opinions, if not, then what's the point of this forum?

Aaron has totally missed the point here, it's the links that promote the discussion plus the fact that I/we would miss loads of interesting stuff without them.

Keep posting Rich.

+1 big big part of the thread, I love to see what Rich has been reading

[MANTIS01]

A government openly inflicting food shortages on the country??

Come now.

The inability of Remain to recognise what terminology like this really means prevents meaningful debate. Classic project fear. Some reduction in choice some increase in price perhaps. But a shortage of FOOD means people could starve to death. Such irrational, panic stricken, weak, slovenly rhetoric. Fodder for the EU negotiation position.

[Doobs]

A government openly inflicting food shortages on the country??

Come now.

The inability of Remain to recognise what terminology like this really means prevents meaningful debate. Classic project fear. Some reduction in choice some increase in price perhaps. But a shortage of FOOD means people could starve to death. Such irrational, panic stricken, weak, slovenly rhetoric. Fodder for the EU negotiation position.

The EU are going to be so pleased that Tighty posted that sentence?  and all that happens because of that sentence? The butterfly effect is real.

[TightEnd]

Summary of May on Marr:

1. She has little new to offer on the Brexit deal after the 3 week delay
2. She refused to rule out implementing either a 2nd referendum or A50 extension
3. She can’t say she’ll be PM for years more not just months.
4 No one knows what route she will go if she can't get the deal through the commons, though the hint was no deal not second ref.

(It’s going to be a long year)

[TightEnd]

A government openly inflicting food shortages on the country??

Come now.

The inability of Remain to recognise what terminology like this really means prevents meaningful debate. Classic project fear. Some reduction in choice some increase in price perhaps. But a shortage of FOOD means people could starve to death. Such irrational, panic stricken, weak, slovenly rhetoric. Fodder for the EU negotiation position.

I don't think there is any condescending "come now" about it and at no point did i mention people starving to death. that's just lazily putting your own exaggerations onto my words

should the deal not get through parliament and the government then choose to go "no deal" (unless parliament finds a mechanism to stop it) rather than second ref, delay A50, revoke A50..whatever the option to delay leaving on those terms is

then the government will be voluntarily inflicting economic hardship to industry (affecting tax receipts, pension values etc etc), food shortages to consumers, lots more unemployment etc

Of course the government can "scorch earth" via big reductions in corporation tax, investment incentives etc to mitigate the impact no deal has but that has consequences down the line (higher deficit, higher borrowing costs, austerity etc)

I do think that many laymen still think no deal = status quo and get quite dogmatic about our place in the world.

I don't think we, myself included, really adequately discount well enough how tough it is going to be. Many people wouldn't be quite so sanguine about it if they did

[Pokerpops]

Won’t be the first time a government has inflicted hardship on us, although it is the first time we’ve specifically voted to give them the authority to do it {tongue in cheek smiley}?

[Marky147]

PS - I think it's pretty disappointing to see that this topic has mainly come to people posting links. Can we not engge without the help of other peoples opinions, if not, then what's the point of this forum?

Aaron has totally missed the point here, it's the links that promote the discussion plus the fact that I/we would miss loads of interesting stuff without them.

Keep posting Rich.

+1 big big part of the thread, I love to see what Rich has been reading

+1