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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180829 times)
BigAdz
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« Reply #16500 on: February 25, 2019, 08:14:03 AM »

I just find kush posts get more and more desperate in his attempt to claim Tories, not only as a party,but as people are total scumbags, and labour fundamentally better people.

His latest piece to back this up is even headlined, Opinion....
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« Reply #16501 on: February 25, 2019, 08:26:46 AM »

I just find kush posts get more and more desperate in his attempt to claim Tories, not only as a party,but as people are total scumbags, and labour fundamentally better people.

His latest piece to back this up is even headlined, Opinion....

When I read Mantis's original bait, I assumed most people would dismiss it as the wind-up it was.   The conservatives have a bigger proportion of racists amongst it supporters, it has a lower proportion of non-white MPs, lower numbers of women etc.   

Labour has had a recent problem with anti-semitism, but Boris Johnson would be competition for that on his own.

None of this is to say that every Tory supporter is a racist, or labour supporter is anti-semetic. 
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #16502 on: February 25, 2019, 10:06:02 AM »

I just find kush posts get more and more desperate in his attempt to claim Tories, not only as a party,but as people are total scumbags, and labour fundamentally better people.

His latest piece to back this up is even headlined, Opinion....

When I read Mantis's original bait, I assumed most people would dismiss it as the wind-up it was.   The conservatives have a bigger proportion of racists amongst it supporters, it has a lower proportion of non-white MPs, lower numbers of women etc.   

Labour has had a recent problem with anti-semitism, but Boris Johnson would be competition for that on his own.

None of this is to say that every Tory supporter is a racist, or labour supporter is anti-semetic. 

9 MPs leaving the Labour Party and citing racism is current political news rather than a wind-up

They feel that the current administration has a lethargic approach to dealing with the problem.

And we can see that left leaning folk even debate this point by simply saying "Well the Conservative Party is more racist so there"

I conclude the current feeling amongst the exiting Labour MP's has some grounding in reality and perhaps a more robust approach to tackling this issue is warranted
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Doobs
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« Reply #16503 on: February 25, 2019, 10:25:33 AM »

I just find kush posts get more and more desperate in his attempt to claim Tories, not only as a party,but as people are total scumbags, and labour fundamentally better people.

His latest piece to back this up is even headlined, Opinion....

When I read Mantis's original bait, I assumed most people would dismiss it as the wind-up it was.   The conservatives have a bigger proportion of racists amongst it supporters, it has a lower proportion of non-white MPs, lower numbers of women etc.   

Labour has had a recent problem with anti-semitism, but Boris Johnson would be competition for that on his own.

None of this is to say that every Tory supporter is a racist, or labour supporter is anti-semetic. 

9 MPs leaving the Labour Party and citing racism is current political news rather than a wind-up

They feel that the current administration has a lethargic approach to dealing with the problem.

And we can see that left leaning folk even debate this point by simply saying "Well the Conservative Party is more racist so there"

I conclude the current feeling amongst the exiting Labour MP's has some grounding in reality and perhaps a more robust approach to tackling this issue is warranted


I know you are averse to research and google, but the 9 MPs gave differing reasons.   I am more cycnical of some reasons given than others. 

The reality is that the Conservatives are more racist as a whole, but it us no surprise that racist conservatives don't see it.  Given you started by implying labour was the one racist psrty, it is a bit rich complaining that others point out it is nonesense.

This is not to say that Labour has not had an anti-semitism problem, and Lucinda Berger in particular has had a terrible time from some labour supporters.   I read some leftie tweeters and some seem to insult me daily, so it must be way worse for the MPs.   It is also fair to say that at least one of the leavers has spread a lot of shit himself.





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« Reply #16504 on: February 25, 2019, 11:32:23 AM »

Politicians, and everyone, should stay away from twitter. A truly awful platform in many ways.
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« Reply #16505 on: February 25, 2019, 12:38:42 PM »

Politicians, and everyone, should stay away from twitter. A truly awful platform in many ways.

How do you know, have you been peeking?
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BigAdz
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« Reply #16506 on: February 25, 2019, 06:34:44 PM »

I just find kush posts get more and more desperate in his attempt to claim Tories, not only as a party,but as people are total scumbags, and labour fundamentally better people.

His latest piece to back this up is even headlined, Opinion....

When I read Mantis's original bait, I assumed most people would dismiss it as the wind-up it was.   The conservatives have a bigger proportion of racists amongst it supporters, it has a lower proportion of non-white MPs, lower numbers of women etc.   

Labour has had a recent problem with anti-semitism, but Boris Johnson would be competition for that on his own.

None of this is to say that every Tory supporter is a racist, or labour supporter is anti-semetic. 

9 MPs leaving the Labour Party and citing racism is current political news rather than a wind-up

They feel that the current administration has a lethargic approach to dealing with the problem.

And we can see that left leaning folk even debate this point by simply saying "Well the Conservative Party is more racist so there"

I conclude the current feeling amongst the exiting Labour MP's has some grounding in reality and perhaps a more robust approach to tackling this issue is warranted


I know you are averse to research and google, but the 9 MPs gave differing reasons.   I am more cycnical of some reasons given than others. 

The reality is that the Conservatives are more racist as a whole, but it us no surprise that racist conservatives don't see it.  Given you started by implying labour was the one racist psrty, it is a bit rich complaining that others point out it is nonesense.

This is not to say that Labour has not had an anti-semitism problem, and Lucinda Berger in particular has had a terrible time from some labour supporters.   I read some leftie tweeters and some seem to insult me daily, so it must be way worse for the MPs.   It is also fair to say that at least one of the leavers has spread a lot of shit himself.








Not sure how you can lay claim to a lack of research on one hand and yet make such a sweeping statement? Have you met every one of the them and done the numbers yourself, or is this based on heresay, or are you basing your opinion on those of 3 people on here?
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« Reply #16507 on: February 26, 2019, 11:47:07 AM »

Man politics is such a mess isn't it.

Looks like a revolution is coming to me!
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nirvana
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« Reply #16508 on: February 26, 2019, 12:40:05 PM »

Man politics is such a mess isn't it.

Looks like a revolution is coming to me!

It's doing me in. I can't even remember life before The referendum now. I want to stop watching or reading anything about politics, notionally at least, but I end up consuming more and more. If we don't leave on the 29th I'm switching off all media inputs and going cold turkey.
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« Reply #16509 on: February 26, 2019, 10:43:13 PM »

Patrick Kielty May not be a particularly funny comedian, but his piece for The Guardian about the Irish Border and the prospect of a United Ireland is pretty good

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/26/hard-brexit-united-ireland-second-referendum-dup
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« Reply #16510 on: February 27, 2019, 12:12:25 AM »

Patrick Kielty May not be a particularly funny comedian, but his piece for The Guardian about the Irish Border and the prospect of a United Ireland is pretty good

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/26/hard-brexit-united-ireland-second-referendum-dup

Powerful stuff, thanks for posting
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aaron1867
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« Reply #16511 on: February 28, 2019, 08:12:37 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.
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bobAlike
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« Reply #16512 on: February 28, 2019, 01:24:04 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.
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nirvana
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« Reply #16513 on: February 28, 2019, 06:08:15 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

If the deal also encompassed the future relationship, so people knew in full what they were voting for, it would be hard to object. I don't want to vote for May's deal and end up in a Norway type arrangement. I don't want to vote remain. So, i would have no worthwhile expression of my view which seems unfair to me. I'd rather parliament decided to revoke A50 than the charade of a referendum along these lines -at least we would know what each MP did and didn't do on this subject.

I'd be happy with another simple leave /remain vote, as it would be a clear signal that people who vote leave don't care about the style of leaving, they just want to leave and if leave won then parliament should deliver their optimal version of leaving within a short period.

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aaron1867
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« Reply #16514 on: March 01, 2019, 08:08:20 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.
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