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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180800 times)
nirvana
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« Reply #17490 on: May 26, 2019, 11:56:11 PM »

No wonder I'm like I am, 38% Brexiteeros in my area and I didn't even vote
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17491 on: May 27, 2019, 12:01:06 AM »

Nearly half of the counts completed and Brexit have 31% whilst the LibDems, Greens and ChangeUK parties campaigning on a ‘No Brexit’ ticket have 37%

Welsh and Scottish results yet to come but Scotland was very strongly remain and adding the SNP vote to the Lib/Green/Change side will surely intensify the demand for another referendum.

Nigel appears to have misjudged this one.

I’m a remainer, but I’m not sure how Nigel misjudged this one. He has just formed a new party!
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« Reply #17492 on: May 27, 2019, 12:05:32 AM »

Tommy Robinson got well and truly trounced.  He did do badly he even finished behind the Tories, UKIP and Change.

Good to see Gerard Batten getting the heave ho too.  

Bad night for the full time racists.  
  
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17493 on: May 27, 2019, 12:13:29 AM »

Tommy Robinson got well and truly trounced.  He did do badly he even finished behind the Tories, UKIP and Change.

Good to see Gerard Batten getting the heave ho too.  

Bad night for the full time racists.  
  

Who you calling a racist?
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« Reply #17494 on: May 27, 2019, 12:19:35 AM »

Do show me something Farage has done that’s racist! Sure, some of his tactics have been a little unpalatable but I wouldn’t go further than perhaps call it ‘extreme patriotism’.

See how he ditched UKIP when they allowed an actual racist (Yaxley-Lennon) into the fold? And didn’t he have a German wife? Or do you think he’s just racist to browns?

I hope you dont think everyone who votes for the brexit party is racist...

Farage holds the same views now, as he did when he was in UKIP. As the saying goes, not everyone who voted Brexit is racist, but all the racists voted Brexit.


I really would like to see how brave a keyboard warrior like you would be in a room full of Brexiteers.

I suppose racists don’t like to be labelled racists. But of course Adz, your response doesn’t surprise me. You’re inciting violence, typical Brexit yob.

You can call me a racist all you like Aaron. My mate Chris, who I played golf with today and a black guy, might disagree, but you know me so much better.

I didn’t call you racist.

Just LOL at you, silly little boy.

You call me silly little boy, but you said tighty left the discussion because of this, yet his daughter was having an operation.

I’d say more LOL at you.


You really are the lowest of the low.

You think it is a laugh at me situation because I made a genuine error around something completely unrelated to making an argument about racism.

I apologised, but  if you, or anyone else here seems to think using the situation to try and win your argument is acceptable, then this really is a forum that has hit new depths.

I am just sorry that it has been raised again and those that think it amusing equally distasteful.
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17495 on: May 27, 2019, 01:00:47 AM »

Do show me something Farage has done that’s racist! Sure, some of his tactics have been a little unpalatable but I wouldn’t go further than perhaps call it ‘extreme patriotism’.

See how he ditched UKIP when they allowed an actual racist (Yaxley-Lennon) into the fold? And didn’t he have a German wife? Or do you think he’s just racist to browns?

I hope you dont think everyone who votes for the brexit party is racist...

Farage holds the same views now, as he did when he was in UKIP. As the saying goes, not everyone who voted Brexit is racist, but all the racists voted Brexit.


I really would like to see how brave a keyboard warrior like you would be in a room full of Brexiteers.

I suppose racists don’t like to be labelled racists. But of course Adz, your response doesn’t surprise me. You’re inciting violence, typical Brexit yob.

You can call me a racist all you like Aaron. My mate Chris, who I played golf with today and a black guy, might disagree, but you know me so much better.

I didn’t call you racist.

Just LOL at you, silly little boy.

You call me silly little boy, but you said tighty left the discussion because of this, yet his daughter was having an operation.

I’d say more LOL at you.


You really are the lowest of the low.

You think it is a laugh at me situation because I made a genuine error around something completely unrelated to making an argument about racism.

I apologised, but  if you, or anyone else here seems to think using the situation to try and win your argument is acceptable, then this really is a forum that has hit new depths.

I am just sorry that it has been raised again and those that think it amusing equally distasteful.

You haven’t apologised really. You made a complete error, did you genuinely think tighty would stop contributing because of a disagreement? You are a typical Brexit voter.
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MintTrav
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« Reply #17496 on: May 27, 2019, 03:03:05 AM »


debate on betfair forum about theresa may resigning as leader.

The market is "When will Theresa May officially cease to be leader of the Conservative Party?"

June was matched at very low odds sub 1.1 and then the belief arose that she would remain leader (rather than just remain PM) until a successor was chosen.

The remainers say that the "resignation" is just symbolic to get the new leader process started.  Their other main evidence is lol wikipedia has the leaving dates and successors entry dates as the same.

On the other side May has given a specific date.  If she had just been symbolically resigning, why didn't she do that on Friday?  Cameron didn't give a date, he said I'm resigning and the new leader will be along in due course hopefully by the party conference.

The Cons party constitution doesn't say the leader stays on or there must be a leader - the LibDem one does, for example.  The cons party constitution states that the party chairman can stand in for the leader.

Any thoughts specifically why May has stated a date?  (The trump visit d-day stuff are PM duties and given that it's public knowledge that she is leaving, there can't really be any face saving you would think).  I suppose she might have picked the date hoping it would be confidential, but got bumped - plausible?

Any thoughts?


She had to stay in office til 30 May to outlast Gordon Brown. This stuff matters to them.
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neeko
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« Reply #17497 on: May 27, 2019, 07:42:01 AM »

Results show the country is split in half, politicians have to brexit or remain, piss of half the people rather than 100% of them.

Just explain how they piss off 100% again...

Who is happy with the situation at the moment?
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« Reply #17498 on: May 27, 2019, 08:10:35 AM »

I guess the results prove that despite many feeling that Brexiteers didn't understand what they were voting for in the first place, they obviously did. That, or they didn't care anyway.

It certainly blows away some arguments that have been posted on here, and whilst the nation is clearly still split, the original vote should be honoured, regardless.......
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« Reply #17499 on: May 27, 2019, 08:29:45 AM »

I guess the results prove that despite many feeling that Brexiteers didn't understand what they were voting for in the first place, they obviously did. That, or they didn't care anyway.

It certainly blows away some arguments that have been posted on here, and whilst the nation is clearly still split, the original vote should be honoured, regardless.......

Not sure how this election leads to your conclusion. One argument it does blow away is that 85% voted for Leave-supporting parties at the GE, which was always nonsense.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #17500 on: May 27, 2019, 08:36:45 AM »

I guess the results prove that despite many feeling that Brexiteers didn't understand what they were voting for in the first place, they obviously did. That, or they didn't care anyway.
...

As an example: Wales has very low levels of immigration and very high levels of EU subsidies; but it still massively supports Brexit with the main reason being to stop all the immigrants coming in.

Does that suggest not caring or not understanding?

I'm pretty sure all it shows is that a lot of people haven't changed their minds - which is what surveys suggested anyway.
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« Reply #17501 on: May 27, 2019, 09:43:33 AM »


This in not racist, it is merely pragmatic.

For this to be racist one would need to accept that a huge influx of white migrants would be welcome. Let's say a disaster affected the north of England but the south of England was booming and long lines of traffic were snapped migrating south. The concern expressed by folk living in the south would be an exact parallel regarding the swarming migration of their white, English counterparts. What reasons would Remain offer to welcome huge movement of population such as this? That answer is the only way to give the racism tag credibility here.

Angela Merkel had an open border policy when first faced with the migration crisis but quickly thereafter closed the borders. Did she sudddenly become racist? No she became pragmatic. Why didn't she fist-pump all the net wealth these migrants were going to contribute? Because she was being pragmatic about social infrastructure.

Nigel Farage is not racist, he's a relatively shrewd opportunist. He realises that the romanticism of the EU isn't a currency that's so lucrative these days and is exploting a more pragmatic approach to streched UK infrastructure. This is what regular folk are buying into as confidence in the future is low and if he picks up "racist" votes along the way well hey, that's pragmatic too. Because in politics votes, power, results are what counts. We've seen how Corbyn's dreamy romanticism has muffed up Labour.

Mainstream politics dismissing such concerns as "racist" really does contribute to pushing voters to more frank talking pragmatic leaders, right across Europe in fact. Pretty funny how Remain exploit concerns by implementing project fear where the shortage of mars bars, nappies, velvet soft toilet roll, kellogs cornflakes and pg tips should be a major worry. But concerns about social infrastructure such as housing, school places, social care, NHS funding are lolled off as racism. 
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« Reply #17502 on: May 27, 2019, 10:23:10 AM »

Am I right on saying this result makes a quick General Election just about a 0% chance until the deal/no deal is sorted and, therefore, the only vote available to (the currently Brexit Party-free) Parliament is a - now much more likely - second referendum?

Does 31% voting for the Brexit Party mean 20% of people have changed their mind in the last three years? Single point manifesto party with the clearest of messages didn't draw their vote. Again, might give come form of confidence to the second referendum advocates.
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« Reply #17503 on: May 27, 2019, 10:32:55 AM »

MP’s have demonstrated an unwillingness to vote through a deal on Brexit, however good or bad it is, the more May tried to find a compromise the worse it got.

Whether it was on genuine principles or for purely self indulgent party political reasons, a compromise deal isn’t going to get through. The combo of Tory right wingers and Corbyn putting the national interest second will ensure a vote will never get through parliament.

MP’s also want no deal off the table.

Basically it’s a way to force through remain by default.

How about this to break the deadlock.

A referendum question which gives completely clear picture of the will of the people.

Something like either 1) remain or 2) leave with no deal on WTO terms.

There would be no room for anyone to say “people don’t know what they are voting for”. It would be absolutely clear.

Get both of the main party leaders to commit to supporting the decision, either way and it will get through a vote in Parliament after.

I can’t see another way of resolving the situation and ensure the will of the people is seen to be respected.



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RickBFA
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« Reply #17504 on: May 27, 2019, 10:38:32 AM »

Am I right on saying this result makes a quick General Election just about a 0% chance until the deal/no deal is sorted and, therefore, the only vote available to (the currently Brexit Party-free) Parliament is a - now much more likely - second referendum?

Does 31% voting for the Brexit Party mean 20% of people have changed their mind in the last three years? Single point manifesto party with the clearest of messages didn't draw their vote. Again, might give come form of confidence to the second referendum advocates.

It doesn’t automatically follow that voters that voted for Brexit would vote for the Brexit Party does it?

There will be plenty of Tory and Labour voters that will have stayed loyal to their party even if they voted for Brexit in the referendum.
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