The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[RickBFA]

One thing that really annoys me is the constant message from the left wing about morality and political views.

There seems to be an aggressively communicated message that the left wing hold the moral high ground and all Tories are heartless, selfish scum.

It wouldn’t annoy me as much if they didn’t think all Tories are scum. What did that Welsh university lecturer ultra left wing chap say this week? All Tories are lower than vermin (words to that effect). It’s completely outrageous bollocks.

I actually agree with this which, given my views on the Tory party, some people might find surprising.

It's the Tory party itself, and certain MP's within it who personify the worst elements of it, that I can't stand.  Trying to project this further onto those who choose to vote for them is a non-starter strategy, but a message that has been rampant within the Corbyn-led Labour Party for the last few years.  Thankfully, Laura "could never be friends with a Tory" Pidcock was one of the election casualties, but the view still persists.

I learned to separate the two from my experiences at university, where I was surrounded by people from far more privileged backgrounds than myself, many of whom had upbringings which would lead them to always naturally support the Tories, in the same way that my experiences had led me to always oppose them.  Some of them became lifelong friends, and our own personal politics didn't get in the way of that, beyond a bit of banter from time to time.  Ironically, the more obnoxious ones I encountered were the ones who had set themselves on a career path in politics.  Gavin Barwell was president of the Union Society for one of the terms I was there, and was generally acknowledged to be a tool by most people I knew at the time, so it was no surprise to see him become a Tory MP and then one of Theresa May's advisers after he lost his seat.

The UK, under FPTP, will always give rise to a natural Conservative majority without something specific to make voters choose Labour over them.  That is a fact, and no amount of denial by Labour, or blaming it on the MSM, will change it.  With hindsight, it's astonishing how effective New Labour were in achieving this and, whatever direction Labour chooses to go in future, without the ability to convince enough 'small c Conservatives' to switch their natural allegiance then there's no chance of them being elected.  It's even harder now because they are no longer the natural party of choice in Scotland, where they previously held many seats.

Starting from a point where the underlying message is to hate Tory voters is a fundamental mistake, but that's the image Labour give out at present, particularly via their social media presence from far left activists and the sight of Socialist Worker banners at countless demonstrations, which aligns with many people's perceptions of Corbyn Labour as a student union protest group.

Great post Sheriff.

Good and bad in every walk of life.

And a variety of friends with different views seems like a healthy balance to me.

[TightEnd]

Arbboy, could you let me know your chosen charity for the election competition please?

[TightEnd]

How Remainers and Leavers voted at the general election

Remainers were split, with 49% voting Labour

Majority of Leavers (74%) voted Conservative

Graph and data YouGov
 

[TightEnd]

The 53 seats where a Tory candidate won despite more votes being cast for pro-referendum candidates.

And the 14 seats where a split pro-Brexit vote allowed a Labour MP to retain the seat.

The difference between a majority of 80, and a majority of 2.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/five-charts-that-explain-how-leave-won-and-remain-lost/

[TightEnd]

How Brits voted at their election by their position on Brexit

-Leavers more disciplined
-Remainers never found unity
-Con Remainers who accepted Brexit & stayed Con v important

Source: Lord Ashcroft

[nirvana]

I know it's the wont of people getting old to do this but political discourse was so much better back then.



Incredible how tarnished New Labour's reputation has become since then - mainly due to the efforts of the left. Astonishing effort and achievement to so comprehensively eat yourself.

[RickBFA]

Laura Pidcock seems to be living in an alternative world with her latest comments.

Blames Tony Blair for the election defeat.

Delusional is too polite.

[DaveShoelace]

#OhJeremyCorbyn is trending on Twitter

His most recent tweet is a new year message pledging to fight fight fight rather than any kind of mea culpa about losing three elections on the bounce https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1211947120112099328

I've had quite a meaty bet on Jezza to still be the leader in July 2020 at 54-1 https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.120629015

Given how much the Corbynistas have buried their head in the sands about the election result, and he himself claims to have 'won the argument' I just think there is a real chance something batshit crazy will happen to keep him in power.

Oh, and happy new year

[Marky147]

#OhJeremyCorbyn is trending on Twitter

His most recent tweet is a new year message pledging to fight fight fight rather than any kind of mea culpa about losing three elections on the bounce https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1211947120112099328

I've had quite a meaty bet on Jezza to still be the leader in July 2020 at 54-1 https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.120629015

Given how much the Corbynistas have buried their head in the sands about the election result, and he himself claims to have 'won the argument' I just think there is a real chance something batshit crazy will happen to keep him in power.

Oh, and happy new year

I'll chuck a score at that, and see if I can pay for my flights in the summer. Good luck us

Happy new year, Barry & all!

[ripple11]

Sky tweeted yesterday evening, the results of 1000 Labour members You Gov poll re the Labour leadership. Starmer had a 22 pt lead over Long Bailey in the "final round".

Bookies had Starmer around 7/4 at the time, and laid a bit at that price, before realizing an official poll was out and he's now about 1/2.

Lots of caveats with the poll.....long way to go with runners and riders, who can vote etc......but a surprising healthy lead.

[Karabiner]

The silence seems deafening from our government re. Trump's assassination of the Iranian general.

[Marky147]

The silence seems deafening from our government re. Trump's assassination of the Iranian general.

Not sure they can be expected to say too much, when it doesn't look like we knew what was going on.

[Karabiner]

The silence seems deafening from our government re. Trump's assassination of the Iranian general.

Not sure they can be expected to say too much, when it doesn't look like we knew what was going on.

Just me and Mike Pompeo surprised at the lack of support or otherwise from Boris then.

[4KSuited]

The silence seems deafening from our government re. Trump's assassination of the Iranian general.

Not sure they can be expected to say too much, when it doesn't look like we knew what was going on.

Just me and Mike Pompeo surprised at the lack of support or otherwise from Boris then.

I’m sure Boris realises that Trump won’t care whether he supports him publicly or not. There’s probably the issue of maintaining a neutral position in case the proverbial hits the fan: why make ourselves a target for Iranian backlash?

[RickBFA]

The silence seems deafening from our government re. Trump's assassination of the Iranian general.

Not sure they can be expected to say too much, when it doesn't look like we knew what was going on.

Just me and Mike Pompeo surprised at the lack of support or otherwise from Boris then.

Given that it appears we weren’t warned and we have UK citizens detained in Iran, the UK response seems understandably muted.