"The Online games are not fair anymore"

[david3103]

Tournaments are the answer and that is where poker is going. Dull conversation really, not sure anyone will change their mind or anything new has been added to the topic since last time. I'm sure it'll still piss me off in 6 months when Negreanu admits he can't win online

How useful is a hud in MTTs?

Can it reflect shifts in play as blind levels increase and the bubble approaches?

[rfgqqabc]

Tournaments are the answer and that is where poker is going. Dull conversation really, not sure anyone will change their mind or anything new has been added to the topic since last time. I'm sure it'll still piss me off in 6 months when Negreanu admits he can't win online

How useful is a hud in MTTs?

Can it reflect shifts in play as blind levels increase and the bubble approaches?

Depends. Not particularly useful but you certainly can get a hud that changes for blind levels and stack sizes etc. Hard to get a significant sample again.

As for Tractor, more than happy to play you without a hud. If you promise enough action ill even pay someone to teach you about a hud. I use mine fairly infrequently, and will be using it lesins on less tables. Most of the cash I play involves games without a hud. More the list of games I offered to play earlier in the thread. If you do find a badeucey hud though I would be interested!

I'm not even a major his supporter I'm just realistic. You can't get rid of them. I'm also tired of seeing them blamed for weaker poker players losing. Matt expresses dismay that he can't post in pha because people use software to get the right answer. I don't even think pha is that software heavy in the responses but I don't think lowering the quality of answer so people can join in is a great idea even though I sympathise with his view. I certainly hope people feel like they can try and answer, they just might have to be prepared they are on the wrong path.

[POWWWWWWWW]

Question for all the recs/casual players in this thread. Do you think online pros that put a lot of work into their game and use a HUD have any less of an edge/advantage over you playing live than they do online?

[bobAlike]

I'm a rec and I think an online pro does has less of an edge over me when playing live. It doesn't matter that his edge is probably the same its all about the perception.

[George2Loose]

I don't think anyone on here is actually a rec in the traditional sense. Cos a rec probably doesnt give a shit about any of this

[bobAlike]

What is the definition of a traditional rec?

[George2Loose]

Someone who plays poker as a hobby. Knows sweet FA about huds. Drinks 4 cans of special brew during a session

[bobAlike]

2/3 a rec for me then

[pleno1]

Most "recs" who played cash games previously would always lose at big loss rates. They aren't the guys who are complaining.

This was a very small % of Recs and it is getting smaller as online cash games are basically dead/dying.

In terms of MTT recs, they are the ones who complain the loudest, they are usually the ones who still think PokerStars is rigged (note blaming the unblamble) and the fact is their argument of "I quit because you guys use huds" is so ridiculous and backwards.

These kind of sample sizes are very difficult. Let's say red dog is playing one table of s €100 tournament. His opponents are playing 12 tables. The one stat they can see on him after the first 1-2 hours is vpip/pfr (how tight/loose) he is pre flop. He is playing one table and can access this information super super easily, it's just paying attention to what's going on. Stuff like turn float in 3bet pot etc I don't even have enough against guys I've played thousands of hands against. In MTTs the player pool (especially low and micro where Recs are based) is so big that huds for regs against a rec who plays a small
Volume of tournaments 1/2 times a week is completely useless. Useless may not be the word, but it will have little to no advantage over the Rec.

The funny thing is huds are actually s great thing for mtt recs. it allows their opponents to try and play 15 tables whilst not thinking about the hand deeply. The rec can really think through the hand, limit the mistakes, think logically whilst the mtt "reg"
Is trying to navigate (usually unsuccessfully) 15+ tables.

If you are a cash game rec and you're put off, don't worry I was a cash game reg and I'm put off. Cash games are dying, mtts are thriving.

If you are an mtt rec you sincerely have nothing at all to worry about. There is no special tool that is going to make you a losing player.

The problem often is that there is two ways for a rec to start

1-

 1a/ rec plays poker
 1b/ rec gets extremely lucky, with very little knowledge/skill somehow wins at poker
 1c/ rec stays and enjoys it
 1d/ rec starts losing
 1e/ rec starts blaming some other factor, huds, cheating site etc

2

   2a/ rec plays poker
   2b/ rec loses
   / rec loses interest

[Rexas]

Do you think anything can be done to "save" online cash?

[RED-DOG]

Do you think anything can be done to "save" online cash?

I'm told you can buy a piece of hardware called a 'Piggy Bank'.

[tikay]

Do you think anything can be done to "save" online cash?

I don't agree that online cash is in the dire straits suggested, (and I'm basing that on actual data), at least, not on "regular" sites, 'Stars, of course, may be an exception. It remains healthy elsewhere, except on the Rooms which are already in terminal decline. I have no idea how it is doing on 'Stars, I'd be the first to admit, other than poker media chatter.

Incidentally, did you see the PokerStars news about how business picked up dramatically of late? I'll look up the link & post it. Good news, we like that.

[tikay]

There you go......


http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room-news/27302-pokerstars-dream-team-marketing-drives-online-poker-traffic/


I know that numbers can be spun all sorts of misleading ways, but this seemed generally positive, even reading between the lines.


Since the campaign launched in the dot-com market two weeks ago, PokerStars cash game traffic has increased by 8.6%, reaching their highest traffic level in two months

In Italy, PokerStars has spiked nearly 30% since the promotion started there, achieving the highest traffic levels since May and boosting PokerStars.IT back into the top five online poker rooms in the world based on cash game traffic

PokerStars’ Spanish online poker room was one of the first to see the benefits as the promotion kicked off there about a month ago. Since then, cash game traffic has jumped 20% reaching levels last seen in April.

With only a week since the promotion started in France, traffic at PokerStars.FR is already up more than 9%, and additional gains will likely follow as the Dream Team Collection promotion runs through the end of the month.



I most certainly don't want to teach you to suck eggs, but in viewing those numbers, bear in mind that they refer to Northern Hemisphere traffic generally, which always dips in the summer months, & generally does not increase much until around the time BST ends, in October.

Also, in viewing those % increases, the numbers which really matter are not W-o-W, or M-o-M, but Y-o-Y.

I read elsewhere, too, that Pokerstars acquisition (new sign-ups) have increased dramatically of late, so, if true, that's good too. They spend plenty on Acquisition, as do many Sites, & that is the seedcorn for so many things.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of those numbers, but they look pretty good to me at face value.

[Rexas]

Right now I'm grinding 50nl on party and, while it has all the usual problems (seating scripts, noone wants to start a table, as soon as someone half decent sits down or the "fish" leaves the table breaks etc) there are always games running. 50nl is a bollocks level as well, like 100nl+ seems to run a lot. Either way, doesn't seem to be in decline as such, the regs often play worse than the "fish" :p Basically just wondering if there were things that people thought could be done that would actually make a difference to help boost the games.

[tikay]

Right now I'm grinding 50nl on party and, while it has all the usual problems (seating scripts, noone wants to start a table, as soon as someone half decent sits down or the "fish" leaves the table breaks etc) there are always games running. 50nl is a bollocks level as well, like 100nl+ seems to run a lot. Either way, doesn't seem to be in decline as such, the regs often play worse than the "fish" :p Basically just wondering if there were things that people thought could be done that would actually make a difference to help boost the games.

Party's cash game liquidity has improved recently, though fair to say it had declined substantially before that rebound, so it has improved from a very low baseline. The point is, like several Rooms, they are now actually managing their poker business rather than just running it as a cash cow.

As to nobody wanting to start a table, that's always been the case, but some Rooms offer additional rakeback to table starters.