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Guido fawkes tweeting she is dead..

any links?

Guido fawkes tweeting she is dead..

any links?

Leaves forum and Twitter for a fortnight.

Leaves forum and Twitter for a fortnight.

Leaves forum and Twitter for a fortnight.

Yeah, pretty sick stuff on social media.  Especially from people who were probably under 5 when she was last in power.

Leaves Twitter for a fortnight.

There are people actually celebrating on Twitter and Facebook because someone has died.

Need a good hard look at themselves imo.

CNN aren't to know that this photo may not be the greatest tribute to her.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHVCdg-CIAA1NI2.jpg)

Problem is that her worshippers should realise that she was a devisive figure and respect those that disagreed with her policies.  Gerald Howarth was just on the BBC claiming that her legacy was ruined by Labour, obviously thats just trolling.

I have no problem with anyone having their views on her as a person but there are people celebrating someone dying.

The worrying line tho is this

''her worshippers should realise that she was a devisive figure and respect those that disagreed with her policies''

So her followers should respect her opponents but her opponents are free to celebrate that she is dead, seems like the respect is a bit one sided there fella.

I have no problem with anyone having their views on her as a person but there are people celebrating someone dying.

The worrying line tho is this

''her worshippers should realise that she was a devisive figure and respect those that disagreed with her policies''

So her followers should respect her opponents but her opponents are free to celebrate that she is dead, seems like the respect is a bit one sided there fella.

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c17/JCtheMessiah/A_OtTeVCcAEjsAi.jpg)

...there will be no minutes silence at Hampden this weekend.

I'm not sure there'll be any minute silences for her this weekend in England either.  I think the Premier League policy is for individual clubs to request approval for a minute's silence - can't imagine that's going to happen?

This is very much an aside but for all the people who say "This generation of kids know nothing, they don't even know who Maggie Thatcher is!" Please tell me more about Aneurin Bevan, Harold Wilson, Clement Atlee etc before getting on your high and mighty horse. GFY.

rant over

p.s not aimed at anyone here Kini pointing out Alex won't know her is fine obv, he didnt know the TMNT

This is very much an aside but for all the people who say "This generation of kids know nothing, they don't even know who Maggie Thatcher is!" Please tell me more about Aneurin Bevan, Harold Wilson, Clement Atlee etc before getting on your high and mighty horse. GFY.

rant over

p.s not aimed at anyone here Kini pointing out Alex won't know her is fine obv, he didnt know the TMNT

One for the minors/miners?

20 pages

Under, but I've got money to blow thanks to Maggie ;)

My wife and her family are from a mining village up near Durham and they all hate her quite intensely, my dad is from London and was in the forces and he idolises her. I have no affiliation although I don't really agree with speaking ill of the dead in general.

Thatcherism in a nutshell.

Thatcherism in a nutshell.

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

I think this adds some colour and perspective to that view.

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

I think this adds some colour and perspective to that view.

One sided post, Mantis :)up

Did you just justify Maggie bringing in Poll Tax because Henry the VIII did it in 1520? You cannot be serious. This is neglected on the Poll Tax wikipedia page and as an aside, you can pretty much justify what you want using well someone else did it before. I was very close to bringing up Hitler but we all know that kills debates rather than start it. I think you will have a hard time supporting Maggie in regards to Poll Tax, why not bring up deregulation or the sale of council houses as a positive?

We do not vote for policies, we vote for Parties. I may disagree with Poll Tax, but support deregulation, because the party elected is by a majority doesn't mean the majority of people support that policy. I couldn't vote for Labour in the 2002 and may not have, but I would be extremely upset if you decided that that meant I voted in favour for the Iraq War.

edit: Obviously Wiki isn't the best source ever, but it does bring up three incidents of Poll Tax being brought in and ignores Henry the 8th.

fyp

To ignore the absolute hell she caused so many communities, and to ignore that she drove a wedge between the North and the South of the country and (largely) created a country wholly reliant on one city is to miss an entire side of the argument, and yet and yet and yet.

You'll never understand the vitriol pouring out today (not that I necessarily agree with it, particularly the 'bandwaggoned' part) without understanding those things. You're entitled to think that she did great things, just as others (like me) who saw her rip apart and mortgage the futures of several communities in the UK are entitled to think that in the face of all that destruction, her achievements are rather 'meh'.

The point is that you have to see the whole picture, the writing of one sided hagiographies is a dangerous game.

For my part, I'm finding it difficult to have much emotion about the topic in general -- I'm aware that Thatcher destroyed my community, and I'm aware that some of the things she did made it possible for lots of other people money, but those people were never the same people whose communities she destroyed. I'm not going to grave dance, and ding dong the witch is dead is a bit strong, but I won't shed a tear tonight.

But I am concerned that people are using the 'don't speak ill of the dead' argument too frequently and stopping sensible discourse.

Universal acclaim?

There hasn't been a more hated political figure in modern history.

fyp

To ignore the absolute hell she caused so many communities, and to ignore that she drove a wedge between the North and the South of the country and (largely) created a country wholly reliant on one city is to miss an entire side of the argument, and yet and yet and yet.

You'll never understand the vitriol pouring out today (not that I necessarily agree with it, particularly the 'bandwaggoned' part) without understanding those things. You're entitled to think that she did great things, just as others (like me) who saw her rip apart and mortgage the futures of several communities in the UK are entitled to think that in the face of all that destruction, her achievements are rather 'meh'.

The point is that you have to see the whole picture, the writing of one sided hagiographies is a dangerous game.

For my part, I'm finding it difficult to have much emotion about the topic in general -- I'm aware that Thatcher destroyed my community, and I'm aware that some of the things she did made it possible for lots of other people money, but those people were never the same people whose communities she destroyed. I'm not going to grave dance, and ding dong the witch is dead is a bit strong, but I won't shed a tear tonight.

But I am concerned that people are using the 'don't speak ill of the dead' argument too frequently and stopping sensible discourse.

Universal acclaim?

There hasn't been a more hated political figure in modern history.

As an aside, did you know Hitler was voted Man of the year by Time magazine in 1938?

In hindsight that was some pick.

I take it you mean British political figure Keith.  Otherwise I have to say Pol Pot is probably hated somewhat more.

I didn't justify poll tax. I said it wasn't her original concept.

I didn't justify poll tax. I said it wasn't her original concept. Which people seem to auto accept it is. Prob because these days people run to wikipedia for their knowledge. It has been a proposed solution to the problem of raising revenue to pay for services for hundreds of years. Personally I don't think it's a very good solution tho.

We don't vote for policies but every MP in the land has the opportunity to debate and vote for individual policies on our behalf.

I will bring up Hitler as I would disagree with Camel and say he is prob the most hated political figure in modern history. I would also put thousands of world leaders and even Nick Griffin ahead of her but people seem blinded and fascinated by hate for her. Like I said politics is a funny old game.

I agree the infrastructure of "some communities" were destroyed on her watch but then again the infrastructure of every community has been destroyed on the last government's watch.

Not speaking ill of the dead is not avoiding sensible debate on important matters of history.  I'm just finding the people who seem to have been primed for action at the very moment they heard this news to either praise her to the heavens or reveal in her death completely distasteful.

I'm willing to discuss anything of her political history you want, the way she beat all odds in her own party to lead it, how the country was screwed when she got there, how much we needed a PM like that, how she went far too far, how the Unions did have too much power, how the Unions were needed and vital and were unfairly destroyed, how a combination of Thatcher and corrupt Union leaders directly lead to families falling to bits and lives destroyed, how she forged alliances with the US and Russia, how she alienated us with Europe, the positive elements of competition which made the UK a financial powerhouse, how that capitalism lead to the inequalities in today's society and the financial crash and how Labout had 13 years to do something about Thatcherisum and didn't do a damn thing.  Pick any bit you want, all the above and a whole heap more.

On reflection, if nothing else, it was certainly a life to be remembered.

Definitely pro Thatcher here and proud of it. My life, my family and those around me certainly benefitted from having a PM with balls. T

Sums it up really, me me me.

On Fire  !!

Sums it up really, me me me.

Sums it up really, me me me.

she didn't create a War to be popular.

Yes it may be a 'me, me, me' centric view but so what. First and foremost my family and their welfare is my priority and secondly everyone else. It's my view and I'll stand by it. I am now able to support my family and contribute to society by means of my tax contributions and charitable donations all largely down to Maggie.

The Thatcher years made me what I am today and I'm proud of that. It taught me that I should not expect things on a plate and that I should earn what I want out of life whether that's working for myself or for somebody else.

you what?

The reaction to the Argentine invasion of the Falklands was one of her towering achievements.

Not sure how she created the situation!

I am glad Thatcher made you what you are today.

I judge her rein not on the effects to me or my family but on the lasting effects it had on those least fortunate in our society, those that needed the most help.

I am not sure why so many people are adamant they would not have succeeded in life/business etc if it was not for her? bizarre.

We have leading political figures telling us how much she did for the environment and green issues, next they will be telling us the Miners love her and she didn't create a War to be popular.

Don't think Kinboshi did much work today.

Everywhere on my Facebook timeline it says "Daniel Phillips likes this".

My parents and school teachers taught me that.

Sorry, I should add that my parents did their bit, not so sure about the scool though. I should also ammend my words to say that the Thatcher government made it easy for me to succeed. (I've never been good with the written word- hence the school comment)

Keith

Thatcher was always a hugely divisive figure as she had to change the country after the mess of the 1970s

This came at great social cost. The alternative was it happened over two decades not 5-6 years, and would have been worse for many more people

However to claim the Falklands was about winning the election is one of the great myths perpetuated by lazy thinkers.

She rang up the Junta and said "look I am in trouble, invade and I will be a war leader?" come on now, the Argentines invaded. She was meant to do nothing and let them go into Argentine sovereignty?

Of course not

It's amazing (to me) how many intelligent, articulate, people, are completely one-eyed on this subject.

I would pay zero attention to anyone who thinks Thatcher was 100% wonderful, and refuses to accept she had faults, and made errors, just as I would not listen to anyone who claims that everything she did was bad, and will not acknowledge her strengths, or achievements.
This thread pretty much proves that debate on the subject is pointless, as the majority of people who want to talk about her, are completely closed-minded to the other side.

Of course not, but in no way was a military response justified or justifiable.

The Argentinians would have left without a huge loss of life.

And the Tories would have lost the 1983 election.

Yeah, you were fine if you weren't poor, disabled, a trade union member, a nurse, ill, old, gay or in desperate need of a council house.

My parents and school teachers taught me that.

It's amazing (to me) how many intelligent, articulate, people, are completely one-eyed on this subject.

I would pay zero attention to anyone who thinks Thatcher was 100% wonderful, and refuses to accept she had faults, and made errors, just as I would not listen to anyone who claims that everything she did was bad, and will not acknowledge her strengths, or achievements.
This thread pretty much proves that debate on the subject is pointless, as the majority of people who want to talk about her, are completely closed-minded to the other side.

No..justified imo

Yes. Our forces lost 250 lives, Argentines 700.

Yes probably

and we'll have seen Prime Minister Kinnock.....

It's amazing (to me) how many intelligent, articulate, people, are completely one-eyed on this subject.

I would pay zero attention to anyone who thinks Thatcher was 100% wonderful, and refuses to accept she had faults, and made errors, just as I would not listen to anyone who claims that everything she did was bad, and will not acknowledge her strengths, or achievements.
This thread pretty much proves that debate on the subject is pointless, as the majority of people who want to talk about her, are completely closed-minded to the other side.

@mulhuzz - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1520s_in_England

Henry VIIIs poll tax was actually 1525 not 1520 so dammit shudda run to Wikipedia before spouting complete nonsense. Doubleup correct that this measure was not linked to the electoral role, this is chiefly because the electoral role was 300 years away. Jon MW is correct that every solution to the problem has been unpopular. Would like to hear a fair solution.

@Doobs - yep my mrs has loads of new shoes she bought on her credit card too. I keep telling her buying stuff you can't afford will only land her in a lot of debt.

tbf, they didn't do enough of a job on you or you'd be in a job that had you making a tax contribution to society

She was one of the most unpopular PMs ever until the Falklands War. The whole thing was about winning the 1983 election

Michael Foot surely?

This is a good article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/apr/11/germaine-greer-margaret-thatcher-anniversary

Although I'm sure many won't like it, or bother to read it, and of course many will disagree with a lot of it.  Good article nevertheless.

He does contribute to society when he buys anything from a shop, fills his car up with petrol, pays his council tax, NI contributions, etc.

Of course not, but in no way was a military response justified or justifiable.

The Argentinians would have left without a huge loss of life.

And the Tories would have lost the 1983 election.

I know this is a touchy subject and this is from someone who's fathers  trade became almost obsolete in the 80's too. Is it not unfair to label the mining episode as a bad thing, radically changing a profession that was mining something that was becoming obsolete in areas it had long been essential is progress isn't it?

I know it cost a lot of jobs and caused a lot of issues, the first house I ever bought was in a place that had a pit closed down, but grand scheme thinking surely it was the right thing to do and brave to go through with it despite the blow back.

I liked Simon's point too, so many people that were too young or not born in the late 70's to understand the winter of discontent stuff or remember the Falklands war are judging her career thru poll tax and other mistakes later on. Like all of us I guess some things she did were successful and others were bad.

You not a fan then Luther?

Thatcher was a Goliath when it came to the Falklands war and the British response was completely justified. The pride in our armed forces all around the country and respect gained around the world was immense.

On the other hand Blair presented fake intelligence in the commons and urged the country to bomb Iraq because of WMD which did not exist. He did this mainly because he wanted to gobble Bush's penis. This lead to massive loss of innocent life and hatred of Britain around the world. Then when our soldiers were repatriated people were allowed to stand on the streets and fist-pump due to free speech. Thatcher would NEVER have allowed that.

Anybody wishing to gain ground in the delusional hatred of Thatcher debate should shhhh about wars.

Errrmmm - even now coal is used to generate 35/40% of the UK's electricity needs     ....    much of it imported.

I remember Scargill appearing on Question Time after the Miners Strike challenging some triple chinned Tory Minister to give British Coal the same annual subsidy as was given the Nuclear Mob.

Apparently the 'uncompetitive coal industry' could then have supplied the UK's power stations with coal that 'cost' nothing!

 

tbf, they didn't do enough of a job on you or you'd be in a job that had you making a tax contribution to society

Course not, he's soooo working class it hurts

imported at a far cheaper cost than UK industry could ever produce it......

Nuclear is subsidised because it is cleaner....

Nuclear has a very low risk for a very high benefit. Cradle to grave, nuclear power plants produce very little environmental impact for a very large amount of reliable power produced.

Gulp     ....     the 'grave' of a nuclear power station will still be with us in 25,000 years.

And the bloody cost of de-commissioning has been dumped fairly and squarely at the taxpayers door!

Whilst Thatcher didn't cause the Falklands War, it was immensely lucky for her that it happened.

In late 81/early 82 the Tories were under 30% in the polls, suffering at the hands of the SDP/Liberals, an alliance that would never have formed a government with them in the event of a hung parliament.

A few months later, the Tories are at 45% and steaming towards the 1983 landslide.

Without the Falklands, Thatcher becomes our Jimmy Carter.

Milk at my school was always warm, never enjoyed it.  Was glad when it all stopped.

"A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure."

Did you suckle on the cow?

Thats deffo true Andrew but where would Winston Churchill be in the all time great leaders without the 2nd world war?

Fortunately for us both of them did a great job when war came along.

"A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure."

Think that's pretty accurate. Last time I got on a bus it stank of piss and somebody was masturbating on the back seat. Sure felt like I was rolling with millionaires.

Whilst Thatcher didn't cause the Falklands War, it was immensely lucky for her that it happened.

In late 81/early 82 the Tories were under 30% in the polls, suffering at the hands of the SDP/Liberals, an alliance that would never have formed a government with them in the event of a hung parliament.

A few months later, the Tories are at 45% and steaming towards the 1983 landslide.

Without the Falklands, Thatcher becomes our Jimmy Carter.

Hush Duracell     .....      or I'll tell the nice NHS nurseys @ Harefield hospital about your Neo-NaziConservative views,

...
 the landing craft that got the troops ashore were due to have been scrapped 18 months after it commenced.
....
It ought to be remembered that the Argies had assumed that British interests in the area had rescinded when the Tories withdrawn the only British naval presence in the area - the Antarctic survey ship - because (usual Conservative short-termism) of cost!

...

if you look at the history of the armed forces you see that it has nothing to do with any party or government.

It can basically be summed up by:

1. war = army fighting heroically on a shoestring while panic driven spending works it way through the system
2. followed by peace = let's save money by cutting the armed forces
3. Goto 1.

I've read a few books but that's pretty much a few centuries of the British armed forces in a nutshell.

Doesn't include the arms-dealing though.

and so your plan for the coal industry in 1981 was?

What would the Cassiobury John Maynard Keynes have done?

Doesn't include the arms-dealing though.

Think that's pretty accurate. Last time I got on a bus it stank of piss and somebody was masturbating on the back seat. Sure felt like I was rolling with millionaires.

Ryan Giggs made his Man U debut 4 months after Thatcher was booted out by her cabinet.

The most divisive British public figure of any of our lives, that is for sure.

About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.

Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.

I was replying to Rich about the 1981 situation, and the Tories - at the time - closed our mines, and imported coal from (the very thankful) subsidized German coal fields.

I'm not being rude Jon, but you appear to have have little idea how the present day fuel from which Uk electricity is sourced with your 'CO2 impact' comment.

Would it surprise you that in the last quarter of 2012 'at 35.4%, the share of coal-fired generation reached its highest third-quarter share in 14 years, keeping well ahead of the 28.2% share held by gas and 22.3% stake held by nuclear generation'.

That's 63.6% of very 'CO2 impact' fuel being burnt to keep your laptop humming.

The point I was trying to make to the Thatcher Apologists who believe Maggie was right to smash our miners is that maybe a bloody island built on 300 years of coal reserves should be contributing more than 300k tons 'of the 11.2m tonnes of coal burned in the third quarter in 2012'.

Maybe having our own coal industry might be good for UK jobs?

Quite right about reinvesting in coal mines , but when we shut the mines we should have followed the French example and kick started nuclear generatin power plants

Have you ever seen Luke sky walker or jean luc Picard or any sci/ fi futurist film where people are shovelling coal into boilers?to power machines

I'm pretty sure I covered the fact that we still had to rely on a lot of coal (primarily as imports) in the post you quoted???

11m tonnes sounds like a lot but it's nothing compared to the likes of countries like Australia with their 76 billion tonnes of reserves, and other countries like them. And their coal is in vastly bigger seams with less impurities - i.e. we can never ever get it cheaper than from them.

Even when you take in to account the jobs it would create and the multiplier effect on the economy that would have - it's still cheaper to import it.

All that coal in our ground - might be a handy reserve a long way down the line when other people start running out though, I think it's probably best to keep it their until then.

Exactly     ....       have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?

(Your analogy is a bit shit though: a nuclear plant produces steam, to drive a turbine, to produce power         .....       Arkwright was doing all that bollox in the mid 18th century)

Exactly     ....       have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?

About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.

Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.

Exactly     ....       have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?
)

WTF? So we import it and do what with it exactly? Suck the power out of it?

If nuclear power is so clean where are the nuclear facilities in London?

A bit of a mixed thread because of the cross purposes of supporting nuclear but also needing coal - we reduce our co2 by subsidising nuclear power - but we don't have enough of it to do without coal (by quite a long way). Mining causes pollution and is expensive, we avoid that if other people do it for us. I think is my argument for the status quo.

There was a nuclear station at dungeness wasn't there? in nuclear terms if that went pear shaped it would be 'close enough' to London to matter.

highlights on youtube

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nz846dDids

We should at least remember fondly her greatest achievement - she was the undoubted star of Spitting Image.

How many people nowadays could name half of the cabinet?  Thanks to the late Sunday night viewing, pretty much everyone at school could do so for the years that it ran.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TFx9u1t1LY

Yeah, you were fine if you weren't poor, disabled, a trade union member, a nurse, ill, old, gay or in desperate need of a council house.

Woodsey, most  of the 'attacks' are on Thatcherism rather than at the woman herself. So the call of ad hominem attacks is incorrect.

Woodsey, most  of the 'attacks' are on Thatcherism rather than at the woman herself. So the call of ad hominem attacks is incorrect.

...

Least we not forget Thatcher branded Mandela a criminal terrorist and did her up most to keep SA apartheid strong. ...

That would be Mandela who started an organisation committed to blowing things up?

How is her son Mark a Sir?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher

this is incredible stuff.

A loan shark to SA police force akin to wonga rates! Guilty of trying to overthrow a country Guinea#?! Tax evasion, settling out of court? About as big a snake as they come.

Least we not forget Thatcher branded Mandela a criminal terrorist and did her up most to keep SA apartheid strong. Wonder how much she got for supporting that/them? or should I say how much of a free reign was Mark given there to milk them dry.

We now have the Mail telling us she saved football in this country...you cant make this shit up..

How is her son a Sir?

Hereditary Baronetcy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatcher_Baronets

"As of 2013, the Thatcher baronetcy is the last hereditary title to be granted to someone outside the British Royal Family."


Not too difficult to find out, but its easier to go "wtf, how can he be a sir?" isn 't it.

He holds it til he dies

I don't think they can ever be removed

Of course these days, the whole baronetcy system is not used for new patronage, understandably given attitudes to hereditary privilege

That would be Mandela who started an organisation committed to blowing things up?

You justify her support of the Khmer Rouge how?

Just seen some miners on the TV standing outside a ramshackle pit shaking their heads and saying they're glad Thatcher is dead. It's like somebody still moaning about a bad beat 30 years after it happened. There's a whole big world out there fellas, prob time to crack on and look for a different career now.

You justify her support of the Khmer Rouge how?

lol, about time JMW was outed

Just seen some miners on the TV standing outside a ramshackle pit shaking their heads and saying they're glad Thatcher is dead. It's like somebody still moaning about a bad beat 30 years after it happened. There's a whole big world out there fellas, prob time to crack on and look for a different career now.

This summed it up for me, sorry if it was posted earlier in the thread-  As Boris Starling has written: "If you hated Margaret Thatcher, the time to celebrate/crow/insult was when she lost her political power, not her life"

I wish people would stop praising her for having courage of her conviction.

A good politician listens to arguments and experts on matters which they have little knowledge.

Then decides on the best policies after a period of reflection.

Thatcher just attacked problems like a cow in a china shop - making her mind up quickly and then refusing to back down even when she was proved to be wrong.

But she did rewrite political history Acid, Thatcherism isn't just a buzz word is it.

Back to my point about looking at the bad side of things, you mentioned unemployment but didn't mention lowering inflation.

You mention selling off council houses and not replacing them but don't accentuate the people that bought their house very cheaply and sold it on later to give them selves a nest egg/money to invest/spend. You give an example of private landlords, it's just looking at one side of the happenings, all the down side. Houses to buy became available down the line because people that had been allowed to buy their council homes could eventually sell.

Of those things tho breaking down the unions and privatisation of companies that improved the level to the consumers were a big success, without doing those things the economy would have continued to stand still. You admit that BG was a bit of a mess, so were lots of other firms then, she took it on to modernise them. These days you can get any amount of phone providers and it's pretty cheap, that's a legacy of the BT privatisation and a free market that was encouraged then. The example of it going bad is probably the rail service which was a shambles when privatised and hasn't really recovered but note that privatisation took place in 1993 when she was no longer in charge.

Watching the various Obituaries on TV last night there was a common theme running thru them in that whenever there was something to be handled she took notice of the experts in that field. It might not be a coincidence that one of the biggest privatisation flops took place soon after she had left office.

You have just kind of shrugged your shoulder at the end and dismissed turning around the economy and eradicating business that were well out of date but if it was that easy then I guess the last two Govt's would have sorted similar problems out easily but they haven't mate.

When she went it was time to go and the Poll Tax was a horrid idea but give me someone that does a lot of good things and some bad things than the current lot who think getting spin doctors to give them quotes full of air or getting their picture taking buying pasties in Greggs is governing.

I remember a story years ago tho when the Tories were trying to appear more in touch with local communities and sent some of the parties heavierweights to various towns and cities around the country. In one of them, with photographers in full flow they wanted to capture one particular Tory in a fish n chip shop photographing him eating fish n chips with the locals. With it all in place he went to the counter and in is lovely posh voice said
'Could I have fish n chips please'
'anything else sir'
' err yes could you put me some of that Guacamole on too' he said pointing at the mushy peas.

Job not done.

after the 1970s and hypthesising Michael Foot as Prime Minister supported by the Marxist Union leaders...

what was the real alternative please?


Labour only got elected when Blair adopted Union reform, Privatisation, Monetarism etc..didn't reverse any of it...he added a social justice agenda onto Thatcherism

the idea that there was a realistic alternative at the time is left wing fiction...even many moderate Labour politicians admitted privately the reforms were corrct, merely that they could never be seen to endorse them let alone do them

Inflation doesn't really matter. As long as income is going up as fast as inflation the only people who suffer by a high inflation rate are those with massive savings.

Unemployment nearly doubled. Enough said.

Selling off council houses was a national disgrace. The whole point of council housing is to provide for people who can't afford to buy. I CBA to look at homeless statistics in the UK, but I would bet heaps it has multiplied massively since 1979.

Privatisation was a massive disaster. Selling the national treasures at a fraction of their true price.

Every time my train is cancelled, my electricity bill goes up by double the inflation rate or my BT internet service goes down, I curse Margaret Thatcher.

Basically if you were rich, young and well educated Thatcher was great for you.

But if you were poor, ill, disabled, gay, poorly educated, a student, a trade union member or worked in the public sector it was 10 years of misery.

If she hadn't been born, you are saying there wouldn't have been anyone who could have taken power in '79 and made changes?  Are you also saying that the only choices to be made were the ones she and her government decided upon?  If so, then how is she so great a leader (as is put forward), if that was the only way?

Inflation doesn't really matter. As long as income is going up as fast as inflation the only people who suffer by a high inflation rate are those with massive savings.

Unemployment nearly doubled. Enough said.

Selling off council houses was a national disgrace. The whole point of council housing is to provide for people who can't afford to buy. I CBA to look at homeless statistics in the UK, but I would bet heaps it has multiplied massively since 1979.

Privatisation was a massive disaster. Selling the national treasures at a fraction of their true price.

Every time my train is cancelled, my electricity bill goes up by double the inflation rate or my BT internet service goes down, I curse Margaret Thatcher.

Basically if you were rich, young and well educated Thatcher was great for you.

But if you were poor, ill, disabled, gay, poorly educated, a student, a trade union member or worked in the public sector it was 10 years of misery.

But she did rewrite political history Acid, Thatcherism isn't just a buzz word is it.

Back to my point about looking at the bad side of things, you mentioned unemployment but didn't mention lowering inflation.

You mention selling off council houses and not replacing them but don't accentuate the people that bought their house very cheaply and sold it on later to give them selves a nest egg/money to invest/spend. You give an example of private landlords, it's just looking at one side of the happenings, all the down side. Houses to buy became available down the line because people that had been allowed to buy their council homes could eventually sell.

Of those things tho breaking down the unions and privatisation of companies that improved the level to the consumers were a big success, without doing those things the economy would have continued to stand still. You admit that BG was a bit of a mess, so were lots of other firms then, she took it on to modernise them. These days you can get any amount of phone providers and it's pretty cheap, that's a legacy of the BT privatisation and a free market that was encouraged then. The example of it going bad is probably the rail service which was a shambles when privatised and hasn't really recovered but note that privatisation took place in 1993 when she was no longer in charge.

Ofc inflation matters.  Most of the economic policy in the last 30+ years has been centred on controlling inflation as the number one priority.

In the mid 70s, I think inflation was heading over 20%.  3 or 4 years of that and your spending power has about halved.  That's lots of income increases that you need.  Which is great if your income doubles every 3 or 4 years, but if you are retired/retiring... you are screwed.  If you have a mortgage, you are similarly screwed.  If you rent, well someone pays the mortgage, so your rent goes up.  Savings become increasingly pointless.

And we haven't even touched on the effects of no longer being able to competitively trade internationally.

Full employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Low inflation.

I don't agree with all below but found this online, have some people been waiting for her death?

Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and polarising politic leader of the last century. This is an incomplete list of why many of us fall on the side that does not regard her with anything other than odium…

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

Most people recognise the massive changes that evolved during the 1980s. However, to ascribe the positive changes to one person, as though they never would have happened in her absence, is laughable.

Fuk me I try balance it out and get shot down, the only thing you have conceded on this thread is it helped you and your family prosper. I will save my responses for elsewhere. Someone who believes people being able to buy their council houses cheap to sell on at a profit later is a good thing needs serious help.

Inflation doesn't really matter. As long as income is going up as fast as inflation the only people who suffer by a high inflation rate are those with massive savings.

Unemployment nearly doubled. Enough said.

Selling off council houses was a national disgrace. The whole point of council housing is to provide for people who can't afford to buy. I CBA to look at homeless statistics in the UK, but I would bet heaps it has multiplied massively since 1979.

Privatisation was a massive disaster. Selling the national treasures at a fraction of their true price.

Every time my train is cancelled, my electricity bill goes up by double the inflation rate or my BT internet service goes down, I curse Margaret Thatcher.

Basically if you were rich, young and well educated Thatcher was great for you.

But if you were poor, ill, disabled, gay, poorly educated, a student, a trade union member or worked in the public sector it was 10 years of misery.

Fuk me I try balance it out and get shot down, the only thing you have conceded on this thread is it helped you and your family prosper. I will save my responses for elsewhere. Someone who believes people being able to buy their council houses cheap to sell on at a profit later is a good thing needs serious help.

no Keith that is not correct imo

Unless wages rise faster than inflation, spending power is lower as time goes on and living standards drop for everyone

Meanwhile, anyone relying on savings (pensioners etc) get decimated

Full Employment is not a panacea for an economy's ills unless inflation is far lower than wage growth

The legacy argument, that our current economic and social ills are somehow all inextricably linked to decisions made in the years 1979-1990 is obviously flawed.
The decisions made in that period were influenced by prior choices and there is no single act that occurred in that 11yrs that can be viewed as a stand alone decision with consequences solely due to that act.
Selling Council Houses, Privatising Gas and Telecomms created a country where home and share ownership stopped being the preserve of the traditional upper and middle class. Preventing local councils replenishing the stock of social housing was perhaps an error but the overall impact was to share the wealth of the nation.

Taking on the Trades Unions was a necessary venture and people like Scargill (the leader of an unballoted strike) needed to be brought to understand that they had overdone their work to 'protect' their members and were in fact now putting their jobs at risk with their demands.

Freeing up the financial markets and creating the environment that brought the World's banks to London rarely gets mentioned, but that happened under her watch and if you want to point to consequences then this may just be where your focus should be. Our most recent problems have, ultimately, stemmed from the creation of 'casino' banking.

So RIP Margaret Thatcher - you were far from perfect, but at least, inlike Bliar, you believed in what you were doing. And at least, unlike Brown, or Cameron/Clegg, you had principles, not focus groups, to guide you.

Lefties always rattle on about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Their answer to any problem is just keep taxing the rich and giving to the poor like some kinda modern day robin hood coup.

One thing money gives you is mobility. So if the government kept bashing up the rich for taxes they will just go to the airport and fck off to Bermuda or Switzerland or wherever. A policy that drives away the entrepreneurs, the business starters, the employers is a very bad policy. If the rich are prevented from investing their money and getting richer they will just bog off to another more competitive country. What will be left is an island of poor people wandering around like walkers from TWD looking for handouts and jobs. So this hatred of the rich puzzles me. Thatcher tried to attract wealth to our country which she did very successfully. This provides the means of a welfare state so people have the basic means to survive. That makes us all very rich indeed because at this moment an advert flashes up on the telly showing kids in Africa starving to death. People talk about “hardship” in this county and I think what bollocks, we don’t know how lucky we are.

Next thing is this me me me culture bashing. Again in theory this thinking of others first is a real nice beardy cardigan-wearing notion but it doesn’t stack up in the real world. In life you will think of yourself and your family first and foremost end of. This will never change as long as human beings are human beings.

Full employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Low inflation.

Savings should be essentially pointless, spare money should be used to stimulate the economy not hoarded up "for a rainy day".

First line of your post.  The deregulation of the financial markets was fundamentally flawed - the impact still being felt now.

Privatisation has seen most of the ownership of our utilities being held overseas.  Not sure how that makes us a richer nation? 

Share the wealth of the nation?  There were more people in 'poverty' under Thatcher than previously.  The gap between the haves and have-nots grew, and the balance of wealth was moved massively to the top 5%.

Yes, the trade unions had too strong a hold that was crippling many industries.  Illegal clamp-downs on strikers and the massive swing to the complete lack of union power now was a step too far.

Thatcher was a had very few scruples, as I've highlighted with her being 'in bed' with brutal dictators across the world (and using UK tax-payers' money to do this).  Blair was wrong with his war on Iraq, but I'd say that Thatcher was even more wrong with her friendship and policy of supporting Saddam and his genocidal dictatorship.  But at least she stuck to her 'principles', so we should eulogise over her being a great leader.

I don't believe I eulogised her, and I was aware of the flaw in the post when I included the final point about the financial markets. But the key decisions that allowed the foreign ownership of our utilities were taken post-Thatcher; the key decisions which allowed us to create a credit-fuelled  boom period and the subsequent collapse of the banks were taken post-Thatcher and the surrender to the powers of Brussels and Strasbourg took place post-Thatcher. Just as every decision she took was made post-Heath/Wilson et al

Vermin...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9980814/Police-injured-and-arrests-made-as-hundreds-celebrated-death-of-Margaret-Thatcher.html

I am declaring myself out of this argument as nothing on this thread has convinced me that I should chnage my views. I thought I was narrow minded but there are a few in this thread who take the biscuit.

Police just doing their job mate.

Some of us don't have biscuits because Thatcher the Biscuit Snatcher took them away from us when we were at school.

Exactly the sort of myopic garbage I'd expect to read from someone with no experience of those events.

Not worth wasting more keystrokes on it though, as that's presumably what the troll attempt was intended to achieve.

Do you want some of mine, I've got too many?

This is indicative of the huge biscuit inequality which has resulted from years of Thatcherism - poor, starving boys like me relying on the largesse of the biscuit-hoarding elite.

I look forward to the glorious day when there will be a bourbon for every boy, a garibaldi for every girl and no one shall suffer for the want of a custard cream.

@doubleup - disagree. What stops somebody marching into my house and taking everything I have is the fact I would bat them in the head if they tried. I like many others am fine about taking control of my own life. Incidentally, happy to accept the level 1 thinker tag. 

That took money out of 90% of the populations pockets and handed it to those that could afford to buy shares.  Similarly with the sale of council housing, it was done at a massive discount and handed the profit into then hands of the few rather than the many.

Some interesting arguments in this thread.  I cant agree with a lot of the things that she did.  Privatisation took away huge amounts of assets and sold them at a huge discount to those that could afford them.  If privatisation had been carried out at true market prices then I wouldn't have really had a problem with it but it wasn't because it wasnt politically expedient to do so.  That took money out of 90% of the populations pockets and handed it to those that could afford to buy shares.  Similarly with the sale of council housing, it was done at a massive discount and handed the profit into then hands of the few rather than the many.

For sure some people did well but literally millions didn't.    I am very happy for those that did well out of Thatcher but surely they can see that it wasnt possible for everyone to "get on their bike".  I will give you a personal example.  I was born in Middlesbrough and my Dad was a steelworker.  As a direct response to policies from Thatchers government he lost his job with British Steel in, I think, 1983 when I was eight.  I distinctly remember him, somewhat ironically, getting on his bike every single day and going out and looking for work locally.  Occasionally he would get work for a couple of weeks but at that point because of the decimation of the manufacturing base there wasn't much/any work.  It is hard to describe the effect not being able to work and provide for you family can have on a man.  The best example I have ever seen was Boys from the Blackstuff but it was tough.  I remember my Mother crying on a regular basis and I remember not being able to go on school trips and other stuff like that because we simply didn't have the money.  Eventually in 1988 my Dad got a job in another part of the country and a year later we moved but those five or so years will always live in my memory and they were a direct result of Thatchers policies.  In later years I heard Norman Lamont say he thought unemployment was a fair price to pay for lower inflation and it struck me that could only be said by a man that had never felt the real indignity associated with unemployment. 

I don't buy into the theories that everything was bad and I am broadly in support of market economies and think her approach to the Falklands was principled and largely in line with what the population (of the Falklands) wanted in the face of huge provocation but I cannot help but think she effectively damaged a large part of our country beyond repair.  I know it was bad in 1979 but go to Middlesbrough or Sunderland or Barnsley or anyone of a huge amount of towns in the North and some in the Midlands and you will question where the huge improvement people talk about is.....

Not sure why people think miners have a monopoly on hardship.

Absolute different gravy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-brand/margaret-thatcher-our-unm_b_3046390.html

Russell Brand is an A1 bell end, not gonna listen to a single word that nob says.

Why not Woodsey he's a truly inspirational stand up kinda guy.lol

If you can't argue with what someone is saying, there's always the ad hominem attack - as though that somehow undermines the validity of what he's said.

If we ever have a thread discussing the primary cause of the hardships for your family that you describe then I'll take care not to make any sweeping generalisations or comments about communities or industries that I clearly know fuck all about, based on a few minutes of television footage and general stereotypes that I've picked up over the years.

It's no surprise to me that you were unable to do the same and I'm comfortable enough that you doing so sits firmly in the trolling category.

Fatman – This thread about the death of Margaret Thatcher sits at 18 pages and this is my 13th post. I have contributed a lot of info about my views and experiences, involved myself in the humour, debated my points in good order, and done some kinda member-bonding thing. I am in this thread because I was a big fan of Margaret Thatcher and my opening post was very positive about her life.

By comparison you have made 4 posts. Your opening post said Margaret Thatcher personified all the worst elements of human nature. In the second one you posted the spitting image puppet. And in the last two you 100% flame me.

If we had a general election you would win the trolling stakes by a landslide

If you can't argue with what someone is saying, there's always the ad hominem attack - as though that somehow undermines the validity of what he's said.

To be fair, two of my posts were only necessary due to your trolling, but of course you wouldn't have recognised that.

I would encourage both sides of this not to quote a section of the Brand article; it covers both sides in a genuine and captivating reflection. If you quote a section of it, you're missing the point.

I would encourage both sides of this not to quote a section of the Brand article; it covers both sides in a genuine and captivating reflection. If you quote a section of it, you're missing the point.

I read it all, and thought the bit I quoted was pertinent.

Also liked the bit about glass ceilings for women. Very accurate despite the irony of who was talking about women's role in society.

Things are getting tetchy.

If you're about to post something which criticises a person (whether it's someone who has been in Katy Perry or not) rather than what that person has said, perhaps go and have a cup of tea before clicking 'post'

Things are getting tetchy.

If you're about to post something which criticises a person (whether it's someone who has been in Katy Perry or not) rather than what that person has said, perhaps go and have a cup of tea before clicking 'post'

200 pages

I would encourage both sides of this not to quote a section of the Brand article; it covers both sides in a genuine and captivating reflection. If you quote a section of it, you're missing the point.

18 pages on someones death....really?

I find this quite sad

Poor Kinboshi, totally fucks his entire debating style

18 pages on someones death....really?

I find this quite sad

It's about half a page on her death.

No fatman I don't recognise why your posts in this thread have been necessary. Every one has been negative or disrespectful, you have offered nothing to the discussion, and you have singled me out. In fact I'm quite surprised moderators are allowed to behave like this.

The blondepoker forum - where you have to accept hate from the mods. Fair enough.

Looking at the photos in the newspapers of all the celebrations and parties held over Maggies death, it does appear that the vast majority of them are pretty young who weren't even born when Maggie was around.

Looks more like jumping on the bandwagon socialist loonies, the same ones that smashed their way around London when the school fees demos were happening. The rent a mob, classy members of our society.

On top of that throw in a few old miners who are still pissed off 30 years later.

How did your post completely change without being edited craig?


I wonder what is happening with the modding on this forum. I see smashedagain being chastised by mods left, right and centre for next to nothing and getting banned. In the recent mega sat cheating thread mods are very anxious to defend and protect the integrity of a 27 post member. But here mods can seemingly do as they please, attack my integrity, brand me a troll and generally be insulting and that is deemed ok. It seems mods can choose to pick on individual members and flame them unchallenged. I don't see how that is fair and neutral moderation.

Most of those don't know what socialism means or what it is, its just a label used by you and the mail to brand people who just need an excuse to kickoff. It's not even worth mentioning, what 300 people in the country made a twat of themselves? I bet the press were camped out waiting for them.

The reason for that tho Silo is  the people that were posting things like 'ding dong the witch is dead' on their Facebook pages that post on here didn't  do it on this thread. I can think of one person who is just chastising people on the thread whose only personal comment on this thread or Facebook is 'Ding dong'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/britain-divided-margaret-thatcher-record-poll

louise mensch has been wetting herself over this poll less than 1000 people took part in...provided her with enough twitter content for months..

No, it’s not my style to drop being personally flamed Tightend.

My conclusion is I have been personally flamed by a moderator and that is accepted on this forum. You are free to tell me how that is the wrong conclusion.

Her death is a very emotive subject to me Tikay, but I cut people some slack and didn’t flame anybody for their views. I don’t know how calling me a troll after all the positive content I’ve submitted is doing your best.

NSFW

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKx3MUqzCcQ


(via Sheriff)

The difference is despite all the long-winded stuff I didn't quote and flame individual members. Even when, as a Thatcher fan, I read insults about her on the day of her death.

The blondepoker forum - where you have to accept hate from the mods. Fair enough.

My apology was pretty weak Mantis, I was going to pm but I don't think your too upset by it. Just holding my hands up in public properly.

I only went back through a few of your posts:

Thatcher was a Goliath when it came to the Falklands war and the British response was completely justified. The pride in our armed forces all around the country and respect gained around the world was immense.

On the other hand Blair presented fake intelligence in the commons and urged the country to bomb Iraq because of WMD which did not exist. He did this mainly because he wanted to gobble Bush's penis.



Lefties always rattle on about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Their answer to any problem is just keep taxing the rich and giving to the poor like some kinda modern day robin hood coup.




It's like somebody still moaning about a bad beat 30 years after it happened. There's a whole big world out there fellas, prob time to crack on and look for a different career now.



Last time I got on a bus it stank of piss and somebody was masturbating on the back seat. Sure felt like I was rolling with millionaires.


If you are going to use this kind of language you are going to get flak from people who disagree with you.

Watched this again last night, after you posted this.
One of my favourite films.

'Tis a great film.  RIP Pete Postlethwaite.

'Tis a great film.  RIP Pete Postlethwaite.

Postlethwaite was God, obv., but only really watched it to see Tara Fitzgerald!

Sorry but how is any of that quoting and flaming an individual blonde member?

I don’t know how calling me a troll after all the positive content I’ve submitted is doing your best.

louise mensch has been wetting herself over this poll less than 1000 people took part in...provided her with enough twitter content for months..

When I realised Margaret Thatcher was dead, I did a double fist pump and shouted, "Fucking brilliant!"

The difference is despite all the long-winded stuff I didn't quote and flame individual members. Even when, as a Thatcher fan, I read insults about her on the day of her death.

The blondepoker forum - where you have to accept hate from the mods. Fair enough.

The great irony is the anti-Thatcher strategy is based on ignoring lots of positives, homing in on the few negatives, and then getting personal. You can see itt the likes of double-up and fatman have ignored all my positive content, homed in on a few debateable negatives, and got personal.

doubleup, as a Thatcher fan, and on the day she died I read this kind of thing on the forum as well as lots of insulting offensive remarks that were deleted.


Yet I did not quote and personally flame any member of the forum, I did not have any posts deleted. But the mods have branded me the troll while gathering together today to tell me to give people some slack. Like I said before, the anti-Thatcher brigade seem to think they have a monopoly on offence.

doubleup I ask you again where do I quote individual members comments and get personal with them? Let alone quoting little parts of their posts to suit my need to be negative.

Btw this is one of the quotes double-up says is clearly aggressive and insulting.

Thatcher was a Goliath when it came to the Falklands war and the British response was completely justified. The pride in our armed forces all around the country and respect gained around the world was immense.

And I am the drama queen.

Ok I'll just label them low life tossers them for celebrating the death of a 87 year old lady. We both know what side of the political spectrum they are on though.

Morning Mr M. How's yer belly for spots?

This may seem a like a small point, but to me it's an important one.

I don't call you "The members" so please don't call me "The mods".

I'm ashamed to say that I don't quite have the historical knowledge to join in this thread.

Can someone give me the main points of why people think she is a hero/devil.

From the good old internet so far I have;

Privatised mines because they were losing £3bn
Charging for school milk
Falklands war
Poll tax riots

None of which seem awful or amazing.

Anyone care to give some factual explanations, rather than hate/love filled opinions of why these effected people so much more than other government policies?

As opposed to high life tossers who's greed and me me me attitude leave them incapable of sympathy for those not as lucky/fortunate as them?

I'm glad she's dead - I do regret the death of an 87 year old lady though - it should have been when she was a lot younger. I've as much remorse over that as she had for her victims.

Sorry I actually meant to quote



You don't have to quote or flame individuals to cause them offence.  Your language in these quotes is clearly aggressive and insulting.  You got a reaction and you now seem like a drama queen.

http://www.quora.com/United-Kingdom/Why-do-so-many-people-dislike-Margaret-Thatcher

Same sort of question you asked.

and here's another one, different perspective

http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2013/04/margaret-thatcher

Oh yeah, it's not offensive anymore. Anyway I was just copying doubleups strategy.

Textbook Mantis - repeated smug arrogance and provocative posts - pick someone who bites and play the victim - if you can get a sneaky wee pop at the Mods it's a bonus.... and repeat.

You've shown a lot of class there rod.

As opposed to high life tossers who's greed and me me me attitude leave them incapable of sympathy for those not as lucky/fortunate as them?

I'm glad she's dead - I do regret the death of an 87 year old lady though - it should have been when she was a lot younger. I've as much remorse over that as she had for her victims.

No, as opposed to those who wanted to go out there and work hard to make something of themselves, rather than have an easy life being mediocre in inefficient unprofitable industries that were only there because they were subsidised by the government.

But as usual people want to blame others and expect everything to be handed to them on a plate rather than go out there and make something of themselves.

Anyone who had the determination and was willing to work hard had a good chance of succeeding under Thatcher. If they didnt prosper during her time, there is a good chance they are incapable of ever prospering.

Members can Edit Posts WITHOUT showing the Edit trace if they do so within, I think, 2 minutes of the original Post. So Craig must have Edited it almost as soon as he Posted.

I think you should be a bit more understanding to the position of the Mods, in this thread & cut some slack, - it IS a very emotive topic to many, & we are doing our best, in very difficult circumstances, to be as fair as we are able to everyone on one of the hottest threads we have seen for some time. We are certainly trying to be more understanding in this particular case.

For the record, I don't do hate for you or anyone else here, & you know that, but you must think as you will.

No, as opposed to those who wanted to go out there and work hard to make something of themselves, rather than have an easy life being mediocre in inefficient unprofitable industries that were only there because they were subsidised by the government.

But as usual people want to blame others and expect everything to be handed to them on a plate rather than go out there and make something of themselves.

Anyone who had the determination and was willing to work hard had a good chance of succeeding under Thatcher. If they didnt prosper during her time, there is a good chance they are incapable of ever prospering.

Does that mean you know I will


Yea sorry dude, that was just a Mantic.

Surely we can conclude Baroness Thatcher is dead now?

Forget all this nonsense and frippery over the way they are acting. The real issue - the biggest problem I have with "The Mods" (yes that's right; I went there) - is that, despite all of the evidence over 21 pages of discussion, debate and postulation, despite untold paragraphs of argument, angst and grumpiness, and despite what I can only assume to be countless Mod Hours spent digesting every minute detail of the words written on these pages...

...the thread title still has a question mark.

Surely we can conclude Baroness Thatcher is dead now?

As have those of her supporters who have shown no compassion or humanity towards her victims on here either. I've seen my Grandad die from silicosis, so he never made it to be one of the 'old miners' happy she's gone. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've always hated her, for what she did & her lack of humanity/compasion/remorse in doing it, I'll save regrets for those who deserve it. As for my class, or lack thereof, you can judge how you like it matter not a fuck to me.

As have those of her supporters who have shown no compassion or humanity towards her victims on here either. I've seen my Grandad die from silicosis, so he never made it to be one of the 'old miners' happy she's gone. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've always hated her, for what she did & her lack of humanity/compasion/remorse in doing it, I'll save regrets for those who deserve it. As for my class, or lack thereof, you can judge how you like it matter not a fuck to me.

I am just not sure what this thread can achieve now, the blue touchpaper has been lit and I can only see a lot of falling out, beyond what we have already seen.

Some comments just push it too far, so if its locked this afternoon, you know why

I'm a little puzzled at all the stuff about poll tax..... what exactly do you think the council tax is ? and why are you all not throwing bricks through windows and burning cars about it ?

Compassion is a subjective emotion and just because I or some others are in the 'For Thatcher camp' doesn't mean we are compassionless. I'm sorry your GD died from a disease borne of the coal industry but stating how you hate this woman and wish that she had died at an earlier time is just puts you on an equal or lower standing than the person you hate.

Btw this is one of the quotes double-up says is clearly aggressive and insulting.

Thatcher was a Goliath when it came to the Falklands war and the British response was completely justified. The pride in our armed forces all around the country and respect gained around the world was immense.

I don't mean to cause any offence or be impertinent..but your grandad died of a disease caused by working in a mine and you hate maggie thatcher for closing said mine?

Which is whay I said those of her suppoters not ALL of her supporters. I live in an area decimated by her need to break the unions. My Grandad would be one of those so compassionately described as a "few old miners who are still pissed off 30 years later". We've people so nicely stating that becasue people didn't prosper they were incapable of it. I don't need a lecture on morals from them, or you. I don't like that I carry this hate for her and what she did, It's not liek me, and I hope one day she's an irrelevance, but we're still stuggling here becasue of her & her followers.

Although if wishing on death on someone who ordered/condoned the deaths of others makes me lower than them in your eyes - I don't really care about your opinion any more.

How you think you can take the moral high ground and talk about my provocative posts is a joke really

I'm a little puzzled at all the stuff about poll tax..... what exactly do you think the council tax is ? and why are you all not throwing bricks through windows and burning cars about it ?

You mean like the bankers?

Good luck to you Rod, I bare you malice and you're right to not care about my opinion because it is worthless to all except me.

Rod, one day you will realise how ironic your sig is.

Of course not. I hate her for killing what he worked for.

You can't expect the government and hence normal people's taxes to subsidise other people's jobs. I understand why people get upset about this and blame Maggie, I really do, but those are the facts.

wikipedia

Closures in all coalfields began in the 1980s as demand for British coal was weakened by large subsidies that other European governments gave to their coal industries (West Germany subsidised coal by four times as much and France by three times as much in 1984) and the availability of lower cost, often open-cast, coal mined in Australia, Colombia, Poland and the United States.

Thats fair enough... and tbh i will never be able to understand the side of yourself and the communities in the front line as although it was my time I was not affected to such a degree.. if i were perhaps i would have the same feelings... as an offshoot..diseases caused by mining are they just an acknowledged side effect of the job or poor safety?

Doesn't mean we should have done the same.

Thats exactly the Thatcher love/hate in a nutshell.  Subsidising coal production acceptable in major economic competitors but unacceptable in Thatcher's Britain leading to rapid destruction of mining communities.  

Is this the thread saying that Cher's dead?  Nobody has heard that joke right?

I clicked that to see the full-size image

I brought up the Blair years because for me his legacy will be the Iraq war. I can’t figure out why people are generally so relaxed towards his tenure compared to Thatcher’s, I genuinely can’t. There’s no doubt lots of innocent people were bombed to death on his watch. And it turns out the evidence he presented to parliament justifying it was wrong. I mean as far as mistakes go that’s quite a howler.

Overall I despise war (although I do believe in a strong defence policy) so I think hmm flying over to another part of the world as the aggressor and bombing people for no reason, especially without UN clearance, is a HUGE policy error. A further cost of this policy was our own innocent people getting bombed to death going about their daily business on the tube. Yet people seem to hate Thatcher much more than Blair and are generally quite relaxed about his error. Personally I feel a lot of compassion for those people, sure some aren’t British and they live far away but they got wrongly bombed to death on Blair’s watch. If we want to judge our leaders on their policy errors why isn’t he hated like Thatcher? Is it because of his Saddam was a bogeyman anyway spin?

Nah, I figure it’s because we live in a me me me society. That is prob the reason people hate Thatcher more than Blair. The people who hate Thatcher lost their jobs and it affected their families. They weren’t bombed out the sky when they were sitting down for dinner like, but they lost their livelihoods, so fuck Thatcher. Think it’s now grown into some kinda tribal thing. But any neutral from another country would say Blair’s policy error and the consequences beat all Maggie’s combined. Even so, I don't hate Blair at all.

Please can I ask the mod(s) to let me know if this is known as “trolling” via pm rather than running me down publically?

Brilliant speeches from Cameron and Miliband there

Especially Miliband.

Well worth catching if you missed them

I don't know why Thatcher's admirers are at all bothered by people celebrating her death.

I suspect she would be quite amused if she knew.

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