Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

So, after the Sky Party on Thursday night, it was back to the Hotel in Feltham, & straight to bed, at about midnight/1am.

I was doing the Show on Friday, & the Hotel was 5 minutes from the Studio. When I travel down from home, I arrive 3 hours early. On Friday I arrived an hour late, at 7pm. Because I could not get out of bed, I was just so bloody tired on Thursday.

But the day in bed did me the world of good - tiredness is like toothache, you notice it most when it's not there - & I think we did a great Show, I was (by my standards) sharp, alert, & on top form.

So I repeated the early night trick, & went straight back to the Hotel & off to bed, (after a little Online Omaha action, I confess), & felt wonderful on Saturday.

Straight up to The Vic for the APAT Onlive World Final, & what a Final that proved to be, one of the best, & best-natured, Finals I've ever watched. I increasingly adore Pioker folks at those levels, people playing the game because they enjoy it, playing in the right spirit, within their bankroll, & despite the low Buy-In, having a decent structure to play within. Hand on heart, those guys played terrific poker, "proper poker", not waiting for hands, it was thrill-a-minute stuff.

We finished at about 9pm (we begun at 2.30pm), so, net of breaks, almost 6 hours straight of Poker. Terrific.

We did the Presentations & the photo-shoots, & spent some time with the APAT Boys. MickyP rung his missus - "I won the Tourney, we are going to Vegas"! A lovely moment, he's pure gold that man.

Parallel to the APAT Onlive World Final, the APAT Regional Qualifier was also taking place at The Vic (& a dozen or more Venues across the UK) & there were, I dunno, about 60 or 70 runners at The Vic. My oh my, APAT has come a long way in a year, & it ain''t started yet - APAT's gonna blow your mind away with some of it's future plans, trust me.

Credit for that goes to Des & Tighty, & the enlarged Backroom Team, they work tirelessly. My passion for APAT is wholly undiminished, but I don't seem to be able to keep up with the workload, most of it is Des & Tighty, & I lag along behind, passively commenting on (& sometimes resisting) their initiatives, & most of our interaction is by e-Mail - hundreds of them. My admiration for the work those two do is just huge.

Maybe when my TV Train eventually hits the buffers, I'll be able to do more.

[snoopy1239]

Young Stuart Rutter is a great example of a youngster "chasing the dream" & playing the Big Buck Events. But he's doing it the right way. He's earning money the other side of the table, writing articles & taking pics for Poker News, & making sure he has a regular income. Good Man him.

Nobody has a "right" to pkay poker at the expense of others, be it paid for by Sponsors or Nippers, so they need to go earn some money themselves, do it the hard way, earn the right - literally - to play big buck events.

I doff my cap to the Stu Rutters of this world, who have got their Bankroll Management spot on. Instead of begging & borrowing & poncing, he goes out & earns the money he needs to cover Tournament Variance. Were there were more who did the same, eh?

I was going to use a similar example until I noticed you already did in this post. So, am I right in understanding that we are talking about those who go into debt (via nipping, loans and so on) to chase the big bucks rather than folk who, say, buy-in to a big event when there bankroll doesn't justify it, but don't rely on loans, nipping, etc.

For example, lets say someone wanted to play all the GUKPTs and GBPTs throughout 2008. To play these events will cost them all their wages and won't leave them with much, but they won't have nipped or taken out any loans. This is also a form of chasing the big bucks, but without the nipping.

Is this the sort of thing you mean with your Stuart Rutter post?

Fascinating response, thanks for that. Something i'm genuinely interested in.

[tikay]

So, after the APAT Onlive World Final, I was aching to play - I always am after watching the game - & so instead of being sensible & going home, back up the M1, I sat at a Cash-Game at The Vic.

And that was a mistake.

It was a £250 Pull-Up £5 £5 affair.

"Hi Guys, hows it going?", & I said Hi to the Dealer, too. No reply. From any of them. Of the 6 players, 2 were reading newspapers, two had i-Pods on, one was asleep.

We sat there, in total silence, for 45 minutes.

Eventually, I pipe up. "Is it always this much fun here guys?".

"What do you want us to say, we are not obliged to talk, are we?" came a single response. Oops.....

At last, the guy to my left spoke, & he was a blonde Lurker - "you tikay then? Great site blonde, I love the Updates, love the site, well done". And we chat a bit, at last. Phew.....

Then the Session Fees Lady arrives, "£15 please guys". £15!

With that, three players stood up, leaving two of us, & so that was that, the game broke.

"That was fun guys, thanks"...........

I think I'll stick to Luton & DTD Cash Action in future. We are allowed to chat & smile there, as we do our dough. And, shock horror, the Dealers smile & chat, too. Little wonder The Vic Cash Games are migrating up to Luton.

[snoopy1239]

£15!!! Crikey, your hourly rate will have to be high to keep up with that.

[tikay]

Young Stuart Rutter is a great example of a youngster "chasing the dream" & playing the Big Buck Events. But he's doing it the right way. He's earning money the other side of the table, writing articles & taking pics for Poker News, & making sure he has a regular income. Good Man him.

Nobody has a "right" to pkay poker at the expense of others, be it paid for by Sponsors or Nippers, so they need to go earn some money themselves, do it the hard way, earn the right - literally - to play big buck events.

I doff my cap to the Stu Rutters of this world, who have got their Bankroll Management spot on. Instead of begging & borrowing & poncing, he goes out & earns the money he needs to cover Tournament Variance. Were there were more who did the same, eh?

I was going to use a similar example until I noticed you already did in this post. So, am I right in understanding that we are talking about those who go into debt (via nipping, loans and so on) to chase the big bucks rather than folk who, say, buy-in to a big event when there bankroll doesn't justify it, but don't rely on loans, nipping, etc.

For example, lets say someone wanted to play all the GUKPTs and GBPTs throughout 2008. To play these events will cost them all their wages and won't leave them with much, but they won't have nipped or taken out any loans. This is also a form of chasing the big bucks, but without the nipping.

Is this the sort of thing you mean with your Stuart Rutter post?

Fascinating response, thanks for that. Something i'm genuinely interested in.

Let me answer your question with a question then.

In Bankroll Management Terms, & assuming normal Touney Variance, what Bankroll would you need to play.....

1) An EPT Season.

2) A GUKPT Season?

As to "not afford" or "nip", of course it's the Nipping that I find so lamentable, so pitiful, & so endemic in poker. Do folks have no pride these days? To borrow, as I sometimes do (overnight, because I'm not "carrying") even £100 from a close friend such as Tom, Jules or Chili pains & embarrasses me.

Which reminds me of that awful 'phone call I had a few mornings ago.....I've joined the Nipping Brigade myself, it seems! Oh, the shame.......

[KarmaDope]

There's only one game worth playing at The Vic right now, and that's the raked game. The session fees for all the others are a bit ridiculous!

[tikay]

£15!!! Crikey, your hourly rate will have to be high to keep up with that.

Yup, £15 an hour. And a Dealer that won't or can't smile, say "Hi" or talk, & table-companions that can't be arsed with speaking, or even saying "Hi".

I know, I know, it's me out of step, not them, but it's a game, & supposed to be fun, & even if you deem it a "job", surely folks should enjoy their job? I'd rather sit on a gridlocked M25 on a wet Friday Rush-Hour than sit there again. And I'm quite sure the feeling is mutual. Fret not you guys at The Vic, I shan't trouble your mute slumber again anytime soon.

[snoopy1239]

Young Stuart Rutter is a great example of a youngster "chasing the dream" & playing the Big Buck Events. But he's doing it the right way. He's earning money the other side of the table, writing articles & taking pics for Poker News, & making sure he has a regular income. Good Man him.

Nobody has a "right" to pkay poker at the expense of others, be it paid for by Sponsors or Nippers, so they need to go earn some money themselves, do it the hard way, earn the right - literally - to play big buck events.

I doff my cap to the Stu Rutters of this world, who have got their Bankroll Management spot on. Instead of begging & borrowing & poncing, he goes out & earns the money he needs to cover Tournament Variance. Were there were more who did the same, eh?

I was going to use a similar example until I noticed you already did in this post. So, am I right in understanding that we are talking about those who go into debt (via nipping, loans and so on) to chase the big bucks rather than folk who, say, buy-in to a big event when there bankroll doesn't justify it, but don't rely on loans, nipping, etc.

For example, lets say someone wanted to play all the GUKPTs and GBPTs throughout 2008. To play these events will cost them all their wages and won't leave them with much, but they won't have nipped or taken out any loans. This is also a form of chasing the big bucks, but without the nipping.

Is this the sort of thing you mean with your Stuart Rutter post?

Fascinating response, thanks for that. Something i'm genuinely interested in.

Let me answer your question with a question then.

In Bankroll Management Terms, & assuming normal Touney Variance, what Bankroll would you need to play.....

1) An EPT Season.

2) A GUKPT Season?

As to "not afford" or "nip", of course it's the Nipping that I find so lamentable, so pitiful, & so endemic in poker. Do folks have no pride these days? To borrow, as I sometimes do (overnight, because I'm not "carrying") even £100 from a close friend such as Tom, Jules or Chili pains & embarrasses me.

Which reminds me of that awful 'phone call I had a few mornings ago.....I've joined the Nipping Brigade myself, it seems! Oh, the shame.......

Well, I don't know the cost of an EPT season, but for a GUKPT (exc Final), I think it's 10k. But let's say someone earns 10k online and uses all that to play the GUKPTs, don't cash, and therefore lose their bankroll and have to go back to building up another 1k to play the next one. I believe there are quite a few players on the circuit who adopte this strategy in the hope tthat sooner or later that win will come. Do you pity these guys, or just the nippers?

Ps. Are you going to name the nipper? It wasn't me was it? Was I sleep nipping again?

[gatso]

They are also allowed to take reg fees without limits

I have misinformed people here, the daily limit for particpation is £3 for poker...sorry 

 

yep, hence Gutshot now charging a £3 entrance fee to cover all tourney fees for a 24 hour period since becoming the powerhouse club. cash game fees are in the form of a voluntary donation as they have been for some time (since the first court case)

[tikay]

Young Stuart Rutter is a great example of a youngster "chasing the dream" & playing the Big Buck Events. But he's doing it the right way. He's earning money the other side of the table, writing articles & taking pics for Poker News, & making sure he has a regular income. Good Man him.

Nobody has a "right" to pkay poker at the expense of others, be it paid for by Sponsors or Nippers, so they need to go earn some money themselves, do it the hard way, earn the right - literally - to play big buck events.

I doff my cap to the Stu Rutters of this world, who have got their Bankroll Management spot on. Instead of begging & borrowing & poncing, he goes out & earns the money he needs to cover Tournament Variance. Were there were more who did the same, eh?

I was going to use a similar example until I noticed you already did in this post. So, am I right in understanding that we are talking about those who go into debt (via nipping, loans and so on) to chase the big bucks rather than folk who, say, buy-in to a big event when there bankroll doesn't justify it, but don't rely on loans, nipping, etc.

For example, lets say someone wanted to play all the GUKPTs and GBPTs throughout 2008. To play these events will cost them all their wages and won't leave them with much, but they won't have nipped or taken out any loans. This is also a form of chasing the big bucks, but without the nipping.

Is this the sort of thing you mean with your Stuart Rutter post?

Fascinating response, thanks for that. Something i'm genuinely interested in.

Let me answer your question with a question then.

In Bankroll Management Terms, & assuming normal Touney Variance, what Bankroll would you need to play.....

1) An EPT Season.

2) A GUKPT Season?

As to "not afford" or "nip", of course it's the Nipping that I find so lamentable, so pitiful, & so endemic in poker. Do folks have no pride these days? To borrow, as I sometimes do (overnight, because I'm not "carrying") even £100 from a close friend such as Tom, Jules or Chili pains & embarrasses me.

Which reminds me of that awful 'phone call I had a few mornings ago.....I've joined the Nipping Brigade myself, it seems! Oh, the shame.......

Well, I don't know the cost of an EPT season, but for a GUKPT (exc Final), I think it's 10k. But let's say someone earns 10k online and uses all that to play the GUKPTs, don't cash, and therefore lose their bankroll and have to go back to building up another 1k to play the next one. I believe there are quite a few players on the circuit who adopte this strategy in the hope tthat sooner or later that win will come. Do you pity these guys, or just the nippers?

Ps. Are you going to name the nipper? It wasn't me was it? Was I sleep nipping again?

You swerved ny question!

What Bankroll do you need to play a GUKPT & EPT Season, respectively, assuming normal Variance?

I have no problem at all if someone has £10,000 & chooses to chance the lot in a GUKPT Season. But most of us want to stay in poker, & that would not be the way to ensure our survival, now would it?

I'm really saying this - there is a good living to be had in poker, but playing beyond one's Bankroll is a very bad thing. My heroes in that respect are folks like Jen, & Tom, Madasahatstand, Ironside, these guys know their financial constraints, & would not dream of jeopardising their bankroll by larging it up in the oh-so addictive Big Buck Events.

We get more cautious & prudent with age, I know that, but my poker future is secure for 12 months minimum, because I guard my bankroll with my life. And because of that, I enjoy it hugely.

[byronkincaid]

if you make 60K a year playing cash on the internet and are happy to use 10 or 20 of that to play donkaments why do you need a bankroll?

[tikay]

if you make 60K a year playing cash on the internet and are happy to use 10 or 20 of that to play donkaments why do you need a bankroll?

I have no issue with that scenario.

OK, I'm off to DTD for some fun.

[RichEO]

Young Stuart Rutter is a great example of a youngster "chasing the dream" & playing the Big Buck Events. But he's doing it the right way. He's earning money the other side of the table, writing articles & taking pics for Poker News, & making sure he has a regular income. Good Man him.

Nobody has a "right" to pkay poker at the expense of others, be it paid for by Sponsors or Nippers, so they need to go earn some money themselves, do it the hard way, earn the right - literally - to play big buck events.

I doff my cap to the Stu Rutters of this world, who have got their Bankroll Management spot on. Instead of begging & borrowing & poncing, he goes out & earns the money he needs to cover Tournament Variance. Were there were more who did the same, eh?

I was going to use a similar example until I noticed you already did in this post. So, am I right in understanding that we are talking about those who go into debt (via nipping, loans and so on) to chase the big bucks rather than folk who, say, buy-in to a big event when there bankroll doesn't justify it, but don't rely on loans, nipping, etc.

For example, lets say someone wanted to play all the GUKPTs and GBPTs throughout 2008. To play these events will cost them all their wages and won't leave them with much, but they won't have nipped or taken out any loans. This is also a form of chasing the big bucks, but without the nipping.

Is this the sort of thing you mean with your Stuart Rutter post?

Fascinating response, thanks for that. Something i'm genuinely interested in.

Let me answer your question with a question then.

In Bankroll Management Terms, & assuming normal Touney Variance, what Bankroll would you need to play.....

1) An EPT Season.

2) A GUKPT Season?

As to "not afford" or "nip", of course it's the Nipping that I find so lamentable, so pitiful, & so endemic in poker. Do folks have no pride these days? To borrow, as I sometimes do (overnight, because I'm not "carrying") even £100 from a close friend such as Tom, Jules or Chili pains & embarrasses me.

Which reminds me of that awful 'phone call I had a few mornings ago.....I've joined the Nipping Brigade myself, it seems! Oh, the shame.......

Well you need £15,000 to play all the events (inc final!) and travel and and pay for hotels and food etc.

I would think in the scheme of a proper bankroll if you had 25k+ whilst playing other games throughout the year you should be getting some cashes along the way to keep you afloat. If of course after 6months you haven't cashed in any GUKPTs and your regular games aren't supporting you, you might want to reconsider using the rest of your bankroll up.

Maybe £25k isn't really enough. But if your playing other poker, you have to expect to win somewhere during the year even if you don't win during a year of GUKPTs. And who says you have to play EVERY event in the year. If you decide you bankroll can't cover it anymore, you can stop playing them.

[Royal Flush]

If you are a full time poker player there is nothing wrong with taking the odd shot at bigger events, once a month say with GPT's

[tikay]

If you are a full time poker player there is nothing wrong with taking the odd shot at bigger events, once a month say with GPT's

Assuming you run at a profit, no.