How did I play this hand / comments please / from the ROOKIE!

[wsopin07]

After further review I think the only mistake I made was the all in, I should have bet 10k - 12.5k, that would have worried him more and maybe killed his willingness to "gamble".

Rookie off to the $100 rebuy here in Dublin, seeya

[Royal Flush]

Brian please bring us back another Gem of a hand to discuss.

[robyong]

Right move by you, wrong call by him.

[The Baron]

Amen.

[Royal Flush]

Right move by you, wrong call by him.

7 words in a perfect post.

[ifm]

what if he had KK?
then it isn't a good move is it?
I still would have called despite all the views.

[12barblues]

****FISH ALERT*****

Although I'm up against the big guns here, I really don't understand the view that a re-raise is the answer. My thinking is:

1. A fold is fine - but you need to win a hand in the next orbit and a half or you are the target for everyone;

2. A call with a view to folding unless you hit your set is awful. The odds just aren't there to try for a 7.5 to 1 shot;

3.A call intending to outplay him after the flop out of position with next to nothing when you think he's good? No thanks.

3. A call intending a stop and go....hmmmm......need to do some more research/thinking about this one, but my gut feel is that if he's on a steal he has two cards to hit on the flop against your one, and all his are better than yours. In addition, no-one has mentioned the possibility of the BB having a hand worth a call when he's getting good odds;

4.A re-raise to 10k/11k/12.5k? Who are you kidding with a 19k stack? You are pot-committed surely? He's getting 3 to 1 at 10k which is very tempting unless he puts you on premium cards only (and I think news of the WSOP will have reached Eire by now.......). I think all the money is going in either pre-flop or on the flop. Given that, an all in is surely preferable?

In summary, I think folding and praying for a genuine big hand is ok, as is the all-in. It's a toss up.

Flame away, tell me why I'm an idiot, I want to learn!

12bb

[tikay]

Thats a GREAT analysis too, 12bb. We have had several, but this is up there amongst them imo.


Rookie is playing this evening, but he will respond to this, & the others, as soon as he gets back to the Hotel. He really does appreciate this interchange of ideas.

[12barblues]

Tikay,

Ty.  I was more nervous about posting this than you would believe!

 My 'fish alert' comment was not false modesty, unfortunately.

12bb

[tikay]

12bb. I am no expert at hand analysis, but I thought you showed great logic & reasoning, I really did. I bet the Rookie agrees.

I was a tad unsure about "3" - "he has 2 outs to hit on the flop" - he does of course have SIX outs, but he has to hit them.

We'd appreciate more hand analysis from you, we really would. You express yourself very well, if you don't mind me saying so.

[12barblues]

When I said '2 cards to hit', I meant (in the J8 example earlier) that he could hit a J (3 cards) or an 8 (3 cards), being 6 in total. In other words, the chances of hitting a 2 (er....2 in total) are much worse* i.e. we agree.

*Your phrase 'a tad unsure' is the politest way i've ever heard anyone say 'what a load of b******s' 

12bb

[Royal Flush]

The reason for raising less than al-in is to give the impression of a much stronger hand, everyone knows if you raise to 10k it's as good as all in, however it says 'i have a hand, i want you in the pot'

[12barblues]

But not when you are clearly pot committed.....I think we are into the area of double-double-counterdouble-bluffs here as to whether a smaller raise means more strenghth or less.

 It all depends on your read of the other person. I remain convinced this is a 'sh*t or bust' situation. If you are in, you are in for your whole stack at some point. If you don't fancy that, fold.

12bb

PS Can anyone explain (because I can't) why I'm arguing with a bracelet holder and all the big guns on this site.......other than to say I'm an obstinate sod  >:?

Some people don't know when they're beaten 

[Royal Flush]

12bb, that is exactly the point.

You are commited, they know and you know it, but you have made it 'seem' cheaper, making them think you have a MASSIVE hand.

[dan]

flushie i know and agree with what you are saying but do you think that if the head case that called with A10 wouldnt call the raise or even go over the top.