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Author Topic: How did I play this hand / comments please / from the ROOKIE!  (Read 34331 times)
Royal Flush
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« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2005, 12:59:36 AM »

You never know, its like a stop and go, it probably wont make much diffrence, but it just might....those times it does increase the edge of a winning player that little bit more.
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« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2005, 01:02:13 AM »

"head case". Mick McCluskey a head case. Absolutely not. Ahem.
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« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2005, 01:02:52 AM »

 
Good debate..learnt alot from just that one question. Anymore simular situations like this, please post em. Muchly appreciated. n1 wsopin06.   TJ    thumbs up
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« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2005, 01:23:31 AM »

I've just written an extremely long ( and brilliantly argued) response to those who don't accept my views......and its disappeared into cyberspace  Sad

If you find said brilliant post on some other thread (or other site  Shocked ) please put it back where it belongs  Grin
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wsopin07
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« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2005, 03:47:19 AM »

Brian please bring us back another Gem of a hand to discuss.

thought that was easy, anytime
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          THE ROOKIE 4/7
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wsopin07
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« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2005, 03:49:29 AM »

****FISH ALERT*****

Although I'm up against the big guns here, I really don't understand the view that a re-raise is the answer. My thinking is:

1. A fold is fine - but you need to win a hand in the next orbit and a half or you are the target for everyone;

2. A call with a view to folding unless you hit your set is awful. The odds just aren't there to try for a 7.5 to 1 shot;

3.A call intending to outplay him after the flop out of position with next to nothing when you think he's good? No thanks.

3. A call intending a stop and go....hmmmm......need to do some more research/thinking about this one, but my gut feel is that if he's on a steal he has two cards to hit on the flop against


your one, and all his are better than yours. In addition, no-one has mentioned the possibility of the BB having a hand worth a call when he's getting good odds;



thanks for the post , well done

4.A re-raise to 10k/11k/12.5k? Who are you kidding with a 19k stack? You are pot-committed surely? He's getting 3 to 1 at 10k which is very tempting unless he puts you on premium cards only (and I think news of the WSOP will have reached Eire by now.......). I think all the money is going in either pre-flop or on the flop. Given that, an all in is surely preferable?

In summary, I think folding and praying for a genuine big hand is ok, as is the all-in. It's a toss up.

Flame away, tell me why I'm an idiot, I want to learn!

12bb
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wsopin07
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« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2005, 03:51:24 AM »

The reason for raising less than al-in is to give the impression of a much stronger hand, everyone knows if you raise to 10k it's as good as all in, however it says 'i have a hand, i want you in the pot'



wheni did it i thought and then dismissed this, that is 1 reason i asked for the input
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wsopin07
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« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2005, 03:52:13 AM »

Tikay,

Ty.  I was more nervous about posting this than you would believe!

 My 'fish alert' comment was not false modesty, unfortunately.

12bb

you cant help anyone, not even yourself, if you dont post
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wsopin07
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« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2005, 03:53:54 AM »

But not when you are clearly pot committed.....I think we are into the area of double-double-counterdouble-bluffs here as to whether a smaller raise means more strenghth or less.

 It all depends on your read of the other person. I remain convinced this is a 'sh*t or bust' situation. If you are in, you are in for your whole stack at some point. If you don't fancy that, fold.

12bb

PS Can anyone explain (because I can't) why I'm arguing with a bracelet holder and all the big guns on this site.......other than to say I'm an obstinate sod  >:?

Some people don't know when they're beaten 

i dont agree, w/ the big comps bull shit wins sometimes, and it may stink mbut i will use it if it helps me win
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wsopin07
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« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2005, 03:56:17 AM »

flushie i know and agree with what you are saying but do you think that if the head case that called with A10 wouldnt call the raise or even go over the top.

head case is a good educated player, but we all make a mistake and very every so often, the real questioon is how do i get him to pays and the answer may be nothing but the debate is great
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« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2005, 03:58:08 AM »

You never know, its like a stop and go, it probably wont make much diffrence, but it just might....those times it does increase the edge of a winning player that little bit more.

this is what i have come away w/ make as many Huh?Huh?Huh? as possible for the caller, not cut and dry!!!!!!
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« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2005, 03:59:46 AM »

"head case". Mick McCluskey a head case. Absolutely not. Ahem.

no, very good player, I may have waited to long for this move, i may have been short enogh, shit, me short on chips or balls, bull shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2005, 04:33:30 AM »

i fail to see how you are out of position? it does not apply here
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« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2005, 09:08:36 AM »

This has been one of the most useful and informative posts ive read for a long long time.

Thanks to wsopin06 and to the 'analysers'

In saying this I would have folded I rekkon and waited to make a move later in the circuit. OK there was a potential (never more than that) steal but if not and ur called you are in the poo and if you get a dodgy call (as possibly happened) you are as well.

OK maybe I am a wimp but if I could have played this with an escape route retaining chips I would have done. In these circumstances however I would have thought about the tourney survival implications and bailed out I think.

Right then back too my $5 stt!   lol
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« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2005, 03:32:02 PM »

well i might as well throw in my views.

personally, i don't see the point of a 12k raise. you and he both know your pot committed, might as well just move all-in.

But what about a little minimum raise? another four thousand chips in would make him think. building the pot or just trying to re-steal without risking too many chips? depends on your image really. If he reraises then you still have the option of folding, sure 10k left isnt much but the blinds have just gone round so you have some time. If he calls then it makes it easier for him to fold on the flop if he misses (unlikely but easier) but it also gives you some chance of getting away if the flop looks nasty. Of course you'd prefer him to fold, and although an extra 4k to put in to call doesnt seem much compared to the pot, it is a third of his remaining stack, so it would depend on his views on the building or restealing question. its easier to keep playing with 13k than 9k.

Its worked for me at the end of a few tournies, although my upper limit is $50 really (unless i'm feeling particularly lucky), so it might not apply.

however, i agree with a fair few other people, i'd grab my balls and move all-in.
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