Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Bongo]

I so want Kinboshi to go on one of those ... I want to be a fly on the wall when he starts arguing that "speed does not kill"

I think his argument is that breaking the speed limit doesn't necessarily kill whereas inappropriate speed (even if within the speed limit) is always bad.

As to the stats I read an article (ages ago so no source) on how they made them and it turned out that they bundled things in with the speeding section to boost it up - things like "other" and inappropriate speed for conditions (within the speed limit).

I think the more serious point is that road safety is lot more just than obeying the speed limit, but obeying the speed limit is about the only thing that is enforced.

A quick google shows some remarkable stats too:

In Ontario, Canada, speed cameras were scrapped in 1995 when road deaths stood at 999 a year and have since fallen to 881. According to the Daily Mail a political spokesman for Ontario said "speed cameras had no effect on drunk drivers, tailgaters, unsafe lane changes, sudden stoppers or vehicles with serious mechanical defects. These are the biggest killers on Ontario roads and they can only be stopped by officers on patrol."

Data acquired from West Midlands Police shows that exceeding the speed limit was the single causation factor of just 4% of accidents in 2001. Hardly the 33% that the government have use to justify the 5000+ speed cameras.

[RED-DOG]

I so want Kinboshi to go on one of those ... I want to be a fly on the wall when he starts arguing that "speed does not kill"

Sigh, I said 'speeding' doesn't kill, not 'speed' doesn't kill.

Inappropriate speed is the danger, not going 10 miles an hour over an arbitrary limit on a motorway in good conditions.

Only 4% of RTC fatalities occur on Motorways.

[thetank]

56% occur in the bushes next to the motorway though.

[gatso]

Only 4% of RTC fatalities occur on Motorways.

what % of journies are on motorways?

[RED-DOG]

If you are travelling at 35mph, and you brake, what speed do you think you will be doing when you reach the point you would have stopped at if you had been doing 30mph?

[titaniumbean]

When I was taught to drive, my instructor showed me a picture of an engine, explained the pedals and how it worked then went right were off weeeeee


Two minutes later im on one of the most sickening roundabouts in my area and he is saying, so here everyone comes very fast and doesn't signal when we go we go. Take the second exit please then back to his diary he went.


he didn't teach me much about pressing pedals or physically driving the car that is violently simple. he taught me how to read the road, how to adjust (poker word!) to morons, how to allow for the cretins who want to move lanes dont signal but then the car twitches and dips and you know when they will come across. yet you still see people drive into them because they cant see what's about to happen.


The driving test needs to be made about 10 times harder and the legislators need to actually tackle the problems rather than try and tax their way to breakeven.

[titaniumbean]

If you are travelling at 35mph, and you brake, what speed do you thing you will be doing when you reach the point you would have stopped at if you had been doing 30mph?

10/15mph at a guess?

[david3103]

A guy in the office upstairs told me this yesterday so I won't answer, just wait to see what answers arrive

 

[gatso]

If you are travelling at 35mph, and you brake, what speed do you think you will be doing when you reach the point you would have stopped at if you had been doing 30mph?

about -7mph as I reversed to finish off the cat that I would've missed had I been going slower

[Bongo]

he didn't teach me much about pressing pedals or physically driving the car that is violently simple. he taught me how to read the road, how to adjust (poker word!) to morons, how to allow for the cretins who want to move lanes dont signal but then the car twitches and dips and you know when they will come across. yet you still see people drive into them because they cant see what's about to happen.

I went on an advanced driving day (obv an excuse to hoon around on airfield) and the instructor set up some scenarios for us to learn.

One of them was to learn how to use ABS, it went like this:

Drive in a straight line at 60mph, at point A hit the brakes as hard as you can and try to steer around 2 sets of cones - set up to represent an obstacle on your side of the road and an oncoming car to avoid after that.

ABS is designed to let you steer when braking so it all sounded pretty simple to me, a pretty pointless exercise.

I was first to have a go and I managed to hit both obstacles and deposit my car into the front room of the imaginary house set off from the road (sigh!). Everyone else moved their cars after that...

Turns out it's rather difficult to do and also goes against all your driving instincts - yet I'd never done anything like that while learning to drive. It would seem that half a day of advanced driving at a skid pan or equivalent would be valuable to most people. I don't know anyone who advocates it seriously for road safety (and my certificate didn't get me any discount on my insurance!).

[kinboshi]

If you are travelling at 35mph, and you brake, what speed do you think you will be doing when you reach the point you would have stopped at if you had been doing 30mph?

It's probably 30mph, or maybe 20mph.

[kinboshi]

I so want Kinboshi to go on one of those ... I want to be a fly on the wall when he starts arguing that "speed does not kill"

I think his argument is that breaking the speed limit doesn't necessarily kill whereas inappropriate speed (even if within the speed limit) is always bad.

As to the stats I read an article (ages ago so no source) on how they made them and it turned out that they bundled things in with the speeding section to boost it up - things like "other" and inappropriate speed for conditions (within the speed limit).

I think the more serious point is that road safety is lot more just than obeying the speed limit, but obeying the speed limit is about the only thing that is enforced.

A quick google shows some remarkable stats too:

In Ontario, Canada, speed cameras were scrapped in 1995 when road deaths stood at 999 a year and have since fallen to 881. According to the Daily Mail a political spokesman for Ontario said "speed cameras had no effect on drunk drivers, tailgaters, unsafe lane changes, sudden stoppers or vehicles with serious mechanical defects. These are the biggest killers on Ontario roads and they can only be stopped by officers on patrol."

Data acquired from West Midlands Police shows that exceeding the speed limit was the single causation factor of just 4% of accidents in 2001. Hardly the 33% that the government have use to justify the 5000+ speed cameras.

This.

70mph on an icy or very wet motorway in poor visibility can be very, very dangerous.

85mph on the same motorway in dry, clear conditions is not inherently dangerous.

One is 'speeding', the other is inappropriate/dangerous speed.

Also doing 35mph in a residential area near a school is far more dangerous than doing 100mph on a clear motorway on a fine day.

[titaniumbean]

he didn't teach me much about pressing pedals or physically driving the car that is violently simple. he taught me how to read the road, how to adjust (poker word!) to morons, how to allow for the cretins who want to move lanes dont signal but then the car twitches and dips and you know when they will come across. yet you still see people drive into them because they cant see what's about to happen.

I went on an advanced driving day (obv an excuse to hoon around on airfield) and the instructor set up some scenarios for us to learn.

One of them was to learn how to use ABS, it went like this:

Drive in a straight line at 60mph, at point A hit the brakes as hard as you can and try to steer around 2 sets of cones - set up to represent an obstacle on your side of the road and an oncoming car to avoid after that.

ABS is designed to let you steer when braking so it all sounded pretty simple to me, a pretty pointless exercise.

I was first to have a go and I managed to hit both obstacles and deposit my car into the front room of the imaginary house set off from the road (sigh!). Everyone else moved their cars after that...

Turns out it's rather difficult to do and also goes against all your driving instincts - yet I'd never done anything like that while learning to drive. It would seem that half a day of advanced driving at a skid pan or equivalent would be valuable to most people. I don't know anyone who advocates it seriously for road safety (and my certificate didn't get me any discount on my insurance!).

Lets not forget WERE NOT TAUGHT TO DRIVE ON A MOTORWAY! like wtf is that all about. morons.

[titaniumbean]

This.

70mph on an icy or very wet motorway in poor visibility can be very, very dangerous.

85mph on the same motorway in dry, clear conditions is not inherently dangerous.

One is 'speeding', the other is inappropriate/dangerous speed.

Also doing 35mph in a residential area near a school is far more dangerous than doing 100mph on a clear motorway on a fine day.

I'm hoping this applies massively when they pass judgement on technically ban-able offences.

[RED-DOG]

If you are travelling at 35mph, and you brake, what speed do you think you will be doing when you reach the point you would have stopped at if you had been doing 30mph?

Amazingly, when breaking from 35mph you would still be doing 21mph at the point where you would have stopped had you been doing 30.