Reasons why I ask is it worth it?

[treefella]

Jambo lets get one thing straight eh.. im not trying to stick up for him at all. just seeing the bigger picture. i can see why this has happened.
 the guys a con man ye ok , but his gambling problem is the main reason this mess was created.
I dont  know him that well either,
so the stories of his  previous borrowing of monies and running up debts are all now coming out of the closet. More fool them for lending !
Doesnt detract from the fact that he is a very good tournament player who will bink again despite him being a total ass hole . : )

[The Camel]

GreekStein you either have terrible judgment or are the unluckiest guy walking with regards to friends in poker.

Blatch,Riverdave and now Railtard.

Run better imo.

I think it's a bit of both. I have been friendly with all three but wouldn't count them amongst my 'friends in poker' and I'm sure they wouldn't count me as the same.

If Hopkin, Boshi, Pie, Toby etc ever grim me though, guarantee I'll never touch another card again.

fml known you longer than all those clowns,lol guess that means you dont mind if i grim you 

I reckon I could easily grim Cos for a monkey

Yeah prob could

If the truth be known I'd be too embarrassed to ask anyone to borrow money  (except my mum), let alone grim them. I'd rather just not play if I didn't have the money...............

Yeh that's the same way a lot of people feel and rightly so.

There are a lot of people I'd still lend money to if they asked though, you being one of them. If any of the people within the group I'd now lend to grimmed me, I'd almost see it as money worth paying to know what they are really like.

It's all about image.

Some players think they look stupid if they aren't playing every big tournament in the calendar.

Remeber that thread where Tony G slagged me off being I wasn't in Monaco to play the Monte Carlo Million (a 25k event). He honestly thought he thought he was insulting me for not having enough money to play it!

The balla dream is all a load of bullshit.

The true role models young players should aspire to are guys like Ben Roberts, Chris Bjorin, Freddie Carle and John Shipley who year in and year out have got the absolute lot, without being flash or demeaning the people theyve won the money from.

And they would definitely rather not play a tournament than borrow money they can't afford to pay back in order to play it.

[Dubai]

I played with Marc when he won the million on the DDS account from 3 tables out- and thought he played real good and was impressed but recently he definitely been spewing, playing bad and id say the money has had a massive effect on his game so he defo needs time off

[GreekStein]

I don't know the others Keith but have played with Ben Roberts live and online and what a great guy he is.

[jambo22]

Jambo lets get one thing straight eh.. im not trying to stick up for him at all. just seeing the bigger picture. i can see why this has happened.
 the guys a con man ye ok , but his gambling problem is the main reason this mess was created.
I dont  know him that well either,
so the stories of his  previous borrowing of monies and running up debts are all now coming out of the closet. More fool them for lending !
Doesnt detract from the fact that he is a very good tournament player who will bink again despite him being a total ass hole . : )

It still sounds like your making excuses for him, and why does him being a good poker player have to be mentioned in every post you make on this thread ?

[mondatoo]

GreekStein you either have terrible judgment or are the unluckiest guy walking with regards to friends in poker.

Blatch,Riverdave and now Railtard.

Run better imo.

I think it's a bit of both. I have been friendly with all three but wouldn't count them amongst my 'friends in poker' and I'm sure they wouldn't count me as the same.

If Hopkin, Boshi, Pie, Toby etc ever grim me though, guarantee I'll never touch another card again.

fml known you longer than all those clowns,lol guess that means you dont mind if i grim you 

I reckon I could easily grim Cos for a monkey

Yeah prob could

If the truth be known I'd be too embarrassed to ask anyone to borrow money  (except my mum), let alone grim them. I'd rather just not play if I didn't have the money...............

Yeh that's the same way a lot of people feel and rightly so.

There are a lot of people I'd still lend money to if they asked though, you being one of them. If any of the people within the group I'd now lend to grimmed me, I'd almost see it as money worth paying to know what they are really like.

It's all about image.

Some players think they look stupid if they aren't playing every big tournament in the calendar.

Remeber that thread where Tony G slagged me off being I wasn't in Monaco to play the Monte Carlo Million (a 25k event). He honestly thought he thought he was insulting me for not having enough money to play it!

The balla dream is all a load of bullshit.

The true role models young players should aspire to are guys like Ben Roberts, Chris Bjorin, Freddie Carle and John Shipley who year in and year out have got the absolute lot, without being flash or demeaning the people theyve won the money from.

And they would definitely rather not play a tournament than borrow money they can't afford to pay back in order to play it.

I guess it speaks volume that I don't know any of them

[DaveShoelace]

GreekStein you either have terrible judgment or are the unluckiest guy walking with regards to friends in poker.

Blatch,Riverdave and now Railtard.

Run better imo.

I think it's a bit of both. I have been friendly with all three but wouldn't count them amongst my 'friends in poker' and I'm sure they wouldn't count me as the same.

If Hopkin, Boshi, Pie, Toby etc ever grim me though, guarantee I'll never touch another card again.

fml known you longer than all those clowns,lol guess that means you dont mind if i grim you  

I reckon I could easily grim Cos for a monkey

Yeah prob could

If the truth be known I'd be too embarrassed to ask anyone to borrow money  (except my mum), let alone grim them. I'd rather just not play if I didn't have the money, I just don't get this grimming shit.............

This is probably a very important point. Most of us have skills/work experience/common sense/money management skills to not have to play with other peoples money and quit/save/wait if we went bust. Online poker and the 'boom' has been around long enough now that for lots of these young guys its the only experience they have had in the real world. They probably either live with their folks or have gone straight from that to a 'balla pad', they are not used to paying the bills or having responsibility, starting in entry level jobs and getting pay rises and promotions, having to get loans for stuff and one day having savings, having to save up for things, having a pension etc etc.

But the reality for a lot of young guys is that they have managed to avoid work and go straight from living with their folks to winning life changing sums of money. They also have had nobody to answer to such as a boss, landlord (missus) etc, so they have no social filter (hence a lot of them are real trolls and keyboard warriors). All of which equates them having no plan B when things dont go so well, the only reality they know is one where they are playing high stakes poker, so they have no other option other than to get money from the people they know - whether thats backing/lending or stealing.

Its very worrying given the variance in poker, how tough the games are getting and also the fact that any day the government could just ban the game altogether. All these young players left out to dry. I know so many guys who would be nothing without poker and lost if it was ever taken away from them.

Now this is not to explain and excuse this behaviour, far from it. I have the ultimate admiration for those players who stay in higher education or develop other interests while still crushing the game. There are plenty of young guys who have approached the game in the right manner and given themselves a plan B and conduct themselves like gents no matter what. Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him and all that.

[Dubai]

John Shipley a legend in the gambling world. Massive punter

[Claw75]

GreekStein you either have terrible judgment or are the unluckiest guy walking with regards to friends in poker.

Blatch,Riverdave and now Railtard.

Run better imo.

I think it's a bit of both. I have been friendly with all three but wouldn't count them amongst my 'friends in poker' and I'm sure they wouldn't count me as the same.

If Hopkin, Boshi, Pie, Toby etc ever grim me though, guarantee I'll never touch another card again.

fml known you longer than all those clowns,lol guess that means you dont mind if i grim you  

I reckon I could easily grim Cos for a monkey

Yeah prob could

If the truth be known I'd be too embarrassed to ask anyone to borrow money  (except my mum), let alone grim them. I'd rather just not play if I didn't have the money, I just don't get this grimming shit.............

This is probably a very important point. Most of us have skills/work experience/common sense/money management skills to not have to play with other peoples money and quit/save/wait if we went bust. Online poker and the 'boom' has been around long enough now that for lots of these young guys its the only experience they have had in the real world. They probably either live with their folks or have gone straight from that to a 'balla pad', they are not used to paying the bills or having responsibility, starting in entry level jobs and getting pay rises and promotions, having to get loans for stuff and one day having savings, having to save up for things, having a pension etc etc.

But the reality for a lot of young guys is that they have managed to avoid work and go straight from living with their folks to winning life changing sums of money. They also have had nobody to answer to such as a boss, landlord (missus) etc, so they have no social filter (hence a lot of them are real trolls and keyboard warriors). All of which equates them having no plan B when things dont go so well, the only reality they know is one where they are playing high stakes poker, so they have no other option other than to get money from the people they know - whether thats backing/lending or stealing.

Its very worrying given the variance in poker, how tough the games are getting and also the fact that any day the government could just ban the game altogether. All these young players left out to dry. I know so many guys who would be nothing without poker and lost if it was ever taken away from them.

Now this is not to explain and excuse this behaviour, far from it. I have the ultimate admiration for those players who stay in higher education or develop other interests while still crushing the game. There are plenty of young guys who have approached the game in the right manner and given themselves a plan B and conduct themselves like gents no matter what. Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him and all that.

that's pretty much what I was trying to say, but you said it a lot better than I could.

people have asked me in the past why I don't find a backer to play poker as I'm pretty much broke.  poker ability aside, the reality is the idea of being in any kind of long term debt 'or make up' to someone else, with pressure to perform really doesn't appeal.  it kind of scares me how commonplace and comfortable a lot of people are with being in, what is to me, huge sums of money in make up.

[SuuPRlim]

One of the things that irratates me more than anything in these situations is people that come on threads like this and say...

"when will you idiots learn not to lend people money"
"you knew he was shady, so you get what you deserve imo"
"what, WTF are people wishing him good luck when he's ripped people off for $40k"

when i started out in poker it was an absolute dream, Spent all day lounging about, going on ridiculous night outs, expensive meals £100-200 btls of wine, drunken sessions in the pits, BALLIN about i called it.

I had a pretty big BR, then i got into a financial commitment with my family i couldnt get out of cos id "loose face" (ended up lying and continiung to lie to my own family) I refused to stop BALLLIN about just thought "meh it'l all be - it normally is" then i ran spark out of money, as in £0.00, was winning at poker, but making bad decision after bad decision and my pathetic lust for the "lifestyle" had drained me - i got into a big debt hole, but not from grimming, I went to my friends, and explained the situation, they lent me money (quite a bit between them) I took longer than i promised to pay the money back which dissapointed me, but I got it sorted.

Without this help it would have been GG, GTFO, WP, do you have a tesco clubcard for me, so im in debted to my friends for this and hope an oppurtunity to repay their kindness comes up in the future. so people saying "why do you continue to lend your "poker-friends" money, when will you learn" can gfy because its not all like this - I've lost tons of money lifetime from lending/swaps etc, im shrewder now, but im still too niave and semi easy to grim, and I hope i never change. People who can log onto forums and make blanket statements like this have no clue about how the poker world operates...

So i understand how this situation crops up, and its FKIN EASY to find urself in it.

The point of this is. poker brings the worst in people out, its not like anything else where procedure and guildlines govern behaviour, people like Marc (who i'v known personally for a while) who are not bad guys at the core, become obsessed and fixated by the poker world (and experiences like the ones i mention)  - not the game itself, but the ego-driven, imagine essential bullshit that drives people like Marc to what he is now, self-obsessed and deluded about what important, and sacrificed friends/decentcy etc to maintain this pointless appearance.

The week before Marc's $232k bink I was chatting to him and he said he wanted a break from poker, said he had 100% belief in his MTT game but HE was his own worst enemy (too degen...) 2weeks later, on "last chance sunday" he's won $232k and playing CTS and Skjervoy 25/50 on stars....

i refuse to flame the guy, or wish him GL either for that matter cos he's lied to me a lot (trying to nip me even the is week before all this came out) but tell him what he already knows, your a fkin idiot marc, no-one doubts your sick at MTTs, you can make money from poker for sure, but no-one was ever impressed with the whole ego, brovado, big guy show in the first place so from this moment on drop it, get your head in order, and start afresh. I dont doubt for a second that you'll be back, and next time, forget imagine, STUPID P5s leaderboards, AND play it straight ffs. And Im not saying this from an arrogant judgemental viewpoint, someone has been through similar times, and wouldn't mind seeing you back on your feet.

This stuff is always going to happen, cos this is poker. And WP to COS yet again....you're nearly in position now to borrow unlimited amounts of anyone on here lol, epic pre-grim?

[/quote]

As long as there are people around who will hero worship others simply because they like to throw their cash around and play the big I am, there will be those that play up to it to make them feel good about themselves, in several cases going to extreme measures not to shatter the illusion.  Seems to be a lot of this about over the last year or two, probably due, I would imagine, to the increase in the number of young players around who bink a decent score or two, having never learnt the true value of money by working hard for it.  I can't see many of these stories ending happily.  The hero worshippers will grow up and what will become of their former idols I don't know.  With poker being so mainstream now though I can't see it being a trend that's going to stop any time soon with new players coming of age (chronologically anyway) every day.

I have read that back and it sounds extremely patronising. not meant to, and certainly not implying that anything but a small minority of the young guys have this mindset, but i'm not great at articulating stuff sometimes.

This is extremely patronising, and suggesting that only a handful of the "young guys" have this mindset is complete drivel.

Don't know if it was a joke or not but somebody on the 2+2 thread mentioned Jamie Sykes intended to loan him $50k  

If you really dont know if that is a joke Murf, then fyl.

[GreekStein]

And WP to COS yet again....you're nearly in position now to borrow unlimited amounts of anyone on here lol, epic pre-grim?

LOL.

gd post dave.

[Woodsey]

One of the things that irratates me more than anything in these situations is people that come on threads like this and say...

"when will you idiots learn not to lend people money"
"you knew he was shady, so you get what you deserve imo"
"what, WTF are people wishing him good luck when he's ripped people off for $40k"

when i started out in poker it was an absolute dream, Spent all day lounging about, going on ridiculous night outs, expensive meals £100-200 btls of wine, drunken sessions in the pits, BALLIN about i called it.

I had a pretty big BR, then i got into a financial commitment with my family i couldnt get out of cos id "loose face" (ended up lying and continiung to lie to my own family) I refused to stop BALLLIN about just thought "meh it'l all be - it normally is" then i ran spark out of money, as in £0.00, was winning at poker, but making bad decision after bad decision and my pathetic lust for the "lifestyle" had drained me - i got into a big debt hole, but not from grimming, I went to my friends, and explained the situation, they lent me money (quite a bit between them) I took longer than i promised to pay the money back which dissapointed me, but I got it sorted.

Without this help it would have been GG, GTFO, WP, do you have a tesco clubcard for me, so im in debted to my friends for this and hope an oppurtunity to repay their kindness comes up in the future. so people saying "why do you continue to lend your "poker-friends" money, when will you learn" can gfy because its not all like this - I've lost tons of money lifetime from lending/swaps etc, im shrewder now, but im still too niave and semi easy to grim, and I hope i never change. People who can log onto forums and make blanket statements like this have no clue about how the poker world operates...

So i understand how this situation crops up, and its FKIN EASY to find urself in it.

The point of this is. poker brings the worst in people out, its not like anything else where procedure and guildlines govern behaviour, people like Marc (who i'v known personally for a while) who are not bad guys at the core, become obsessed and fixated by the poker world (and experiences like the ones i mention)  - not the game itself, but the ego-driven, imagine essential bullshit that drives people like Marc to what he is now, self-obsessed and deluded about what important, and sacrificed friends/decentcy etc to maintain this pointless appearance.

The week before Marc's $232k bink I was chatting to him and he said he wanted a break from poker, said he had 100% belief in his MTT game but HE was his own worst enemy (too degen...) 2weeks later, on "last chance sunday" he's won $232k and playing CTS and Skjervoy 25/50 on stars....

i refuse to flame the guy, or wish him GL either for that matter cos he's lied to me a lot (trying to nip me even the is week before all this came out) but tell him what he already knows, your a fkin idiot marc, no-one doubts your sick at MTTs, you can make money from poker for sure, but no-one was ever impressed with the whole ego, brovado, big guy show in the first place so from this moment on drop it, get your head in order, and start afresh. I dont doubt for a second that you'll be back, and next time, forget imagine, STUPID P5s leaderboards, AND play it straight ffs. And Im not saying this from an arrogant judgemental viewpoint, someone has been through similar times, and wouldn't mind seeing you back on your feet.

This stuff is always going to happen, cos this is poker. And WP to COS yet again....you're nearly in position now to borrow unlimited amounts of anyone on here lol, epic pre-grim?

We'll sorry if I disagree, but fuck me here's a novel suggestion for next time you or anyone else goes busto, get a job like the rest of us? Is that such a ridiculous suggestion? What if you do the money you have borrowed, borrow more?

And yes I am in the don't lend people money camp, people who go busto should sort out their lives like the rest of us minnows who have to work properly for a living. I know your going to disagree but meh..............

[DaveShoelace]

One of the things that irratates me more than anything in these situations is people that come on threads like this and say...

"when will you idiots learn not to lend people money"
"you knew he was shady, so you get what you deserve imo"
"what, WTF are people wishing him good luck when he's ripped people off for $40k"

when i started out in poker it was an absolute dream, Spent all day lounging about, going on ridiculous night outs, expensive meals £100-200 btls of wine, drunken sessions in the pits, BALLIN about i called it.

I had a pretty big BR, then i got into a financial commitment with my family i couldnt get out of cos id "loose face" (ended up lying and continiung to lie to my own family) I refused to stop BALLLIN about just thought "meh it'l all be - it normally is" then i ran spark out of money, as in £0.00, was winning at poker, but making bad decision after bad decision and my pathetic lust for the "lifestyle" had drained me - i got into a big debt hole, but not from grimming, I went to my friends, and explained the situation, they lent me money (quite a bit between them) I took longer than i promised to pay the money back which dissapointed me, but I got it sorted.

Without this help it would have been GG, GTFO, WP, do you have a tesco clubcard for me, so im in debted to my friends for this and hope an oppurtunity to repay their kindness comes up in the future. so people saying "why do you continue to lend your "poker-friends" money, when will you learn" can gfy because its not all like this - I've lost tons of money lifetime from lending/swaps etc, im shrewder now, but im still too niave and semi easy to grim, and I hope i never change. People who can log onto forums and make blanket statements like this have no clue about how the poker world operates...

So i understand how this situation crops up, and its FKIN EASY to find urself in it.

The point of this is. poker brings the worst in people out, its not like anything else where procedure and guildlines govern behaviour, people like Marc (who i'v known personally for a while) who are not bad guys at the core, become obsessed and fixated by the poker world (and experiences like the ones i mention)  - not the game itself, but the ego-driven, imagine essential bullshit that drives people like Marc to what he is now, self-obsessed and deluded about what important, and sacrificed friends/decentcy etc to maintain this pointless appearance.

The week before Marc's $232k bink I was chatting to him and he said he wanted a break from poker, said he had 100% belief in his MTT game but HE was his own worst enemy (too degen...) 2weeks later, on "last chance sunday" he's won $232k and playing CTS and Skjervoy 25/50 on stars....

i refuse to flame the guy, or wish him GL either for that matter cos he's lied to me a lot (trying to nip me even the is week before all this came out) but tell him what he already knows, your a fkin idiot marc, no-one doubts your sick at MTTs, you can make money from poker for sure, but no-one was ever impressed with the whole ego, brovado, big guy show in the first place so from this moment on drop it, get your head in order, and start afresh. I dont doubt for a second that you'll be back, and next time, forget imagine, STUPID P5s leaderboards, AND play it straight ffs. And Im not saying this from an arrogant judgemental viewpoint, someone has been through similar times, and wouldn't mind seeing you back on your feet.

This stuff is always going to happen, cos this is poker. And WP to COS yet again....you're nearly in position now to borrow unlimited amounts of anyone on here lol, epic pre-grim?

We'll sorry if I disagree, but fuck me here's a novel suggestion for next time you or anyone else goes busto, get a job like the rest of us? Is that such a ridiculous suggestion? What if you do the money you have borrowed, borrow more?

And yes I am in the don't lend people money camp, people who go busto should sort out their lives like the rest of us minnows who have to work properly for a living. I know your going to disagree but meh..............

I also think getting a job instead of borrowing is probably the grounding experience a lot of pros need. Though I would expect 99% would never do it.

[mouth]

Jambo lets get one thing straight eh.. im not trying to stick up for him at all. just seeing the bigger picture. i can see why this has happened.
 the guys a con man ye ok , but his gambling problem is the main reason this mess was created.
I dont  know him that well either,
so the stories of his  previous borrowing of monies and running up debts are all now coming out of the closet. More fool them for lending !
Doesnt detract from the fact that he is a very good tournament player who will bink again despite him being a total ass hole . : )

Mr B let go of this. You're clearly not reading the other peopl's posts on here are you? That's great that you THINK you can see how this happened. Unfortunately your rose coloured glasses are steamed up.

His gambling problem isn't the main reason this mess was created - his being a conman is the reason this mess was created. As Cos has pointed out, he has history (same as Blatch did - shock horror), time to let it go whether he's a great player or not - that really isn't the issue here for anyone other than you and Marc Wright.

[dean23price]

im hungry