Independence Referendum

[Woodsey]

Maybe this was the No campaign's plan all along for the Yes vote to get all the early momentum then run out of steam.  Seems like a big shift today against the Yes vote.  The sheer numbers of major employers in Scotland coming out in favour of no vote today has to send a message of reality to the yes voters to their jobs/businesses and the overall economy.

But your wrong.....

















Because Kmacs is gonna say so in a min lol  

[Kmac84]

We fully expected all this, leopards don't change their spots. 

[Somerled]

Right, thats that sorted then.  Give me strength. 

KMac seriously what is your problem?

The UK is, of course, a country. So is Scotland, so is England, so is Wales. You can dig around semantics to find a definition of "country" which doesn't fit the UK or any of the others. Does it really matter??? Really???

What matters more to me is sifting through the bullshit that is put about by both sides of this debate. The biggest difference is that if you criticise anything, yes anything, about the yes side you are somehow Un-Scottish. Can you not even begin to see how offensive that is to those of us that dare to disagree with the view put forward by the SNP?

I was expecting some kind of dissection of the article I linked to earlier, which explains a lot about how the SNP operate, but no, not a word. So I guess you just don't like it. or maybe you actually agree with it. 

[Woodsey]

News night just reporting that Clydesdale bank will move south also if independence happens.

[Somerled]

News night just reporting that Clydesdale bank will move south also if independence happens.

To be fair they're Australian, that's a lonnnnnnngggggg way South.

[OverTheBorder]

 

Right, thats that sorted then.  Give me strength. 

KMac seriously what is your problem?

The UK is, of course, a country. So is Scotland, so is England, so is Wales. You can dig around semantics to find a definition of "country" which doesn't fit the UK or any of the others. Does it really matter??? Really???

What matters more to me is sifting through the bullshit that is put about by both sides of this debate. The biggest difference is that if you criticise anything, yes anything, about the yes side you are somehow Un-Scottish. Can you not even begin to see how offensive that is to those of us that dare to disagree with the view put forward by the SNP?

I was expecting some kind of dissection of the article I linked to earlier, which explains a lot about how the SNP operate, but no, not a word. So I guess you just don't like it. or maybe you actually agree with it. 

He is busy arranging 100,000s of removal vans, give him time.

Nb - it has been 5 hours since anymore saltires have been staked next door.

[OverTheBorder]

News night just reporting that Clydesdale bank will move south also if independence happens.

I read that as Clydebank ha ha I was thinking that would be a logistical issue, thought they would be yes voters

[Woodsey]

News night just reporting that Clydesdale bank will move south also if independence happens.

To be fair they're Australian, that's a lonnnnnnngggggg way South.

Ahh gotcha, thought they were still Scottish. Still not good news though, I expect a ton of other companies to confirm their intentions to move before the week is out.

[Kmac84]

Right, thats that sorted then.  Give me strength. 

KMac seriously what is your problem?

The UK is, of course, a country. So is Scotland, so is England, so is Wales. You can dig around semantics to find a definition of "country" which doesn't fit the UK or any of the others. Does it really matter??? Really???

What matters more to me is sifting through the bullshit that is put about by both sides of this debate. The biggest difference is that if you criticise anything, yes anything, about the yes side you are somehow Un-Scottish. Can you not even begin to see how offensive that is to those of us that dare to disagree with the view put forward by the SNP?

I was expecting some kind of dissection of the article I linked to earlier, which explains a lot about how the SNP operate, but no, not a word. So I guess you just don't like it. or maybe you actually agree with it. 

You assume I agree with the view put forward by the SNP.  A silly trait by unionists is to suggest that only the SNP support independence.  

I never read the article you posted.  

[Somerled]

Right, thats that sorted then.  Give me strength. 

KMac seriously what is your problem?

The UK is, of course, a country. So is Scotland, so is England, so is Wales. You can dig around semantics to find a definition of "country" which doesn't fit the UK or any of the others. Does it really matter??? Really???

What matters more to me is sifting through the bullshit that is put about by both sides of this debate. The biggest difference is that if you criticise anything, yes anything, about the yes side you are somehow Un-Scottish. Can you not even begin to see how offensive that is to those of us that dare to disagree with the view put forward by the SNP?

I was expecting some kind of dissection of the article I linked to earlier, which explains a lot about how the SNP operate, but no, not a word. So I guess you just don't like it. or maybe you actually agree with it. 

You assume I agree with the view put forward by the SNP.  A silly trait by unionists is to suggest that only the SNP support independence.  

I never read the article you posted.  

Eh? Who will be in charge of negotiations after a Yes vote? The SNP. That's exactly who you're voting for.
And if not their vision what is your vision? The sham Socialist Utopia that Sheridan and other clowns espouse? prepare to be disappointed, whatever the outcome.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-new-era-will-leave-radical-left-in-shadows-1-3533672


And never reading contrary articles is a great way to learn stuff. Tremendous.

[Somerled]

And I'm not a Unionist, I'm, if anything, a federalist, but I hate nationalism in all it's various guises as it breeds intolerance and a lack of understanding.
As you have most ably demonstrated, better than I ever could.

(Apologies to the Mods if I've overstepped the mark)

[nirvana]

It feels like the yes camp are not doing enough to get the comfortable working class and middle class on side.

I imagine, generally,  it's hard to feel as passionately 'no' as it is to feel passionately 'yes'.

Starting to look like the only hope for yes is if no folks don't feel motivated enough to get up and bother to vote on the day.

[Kmac84]

Right, thats that sorted then.  Give me strength. 

KMac seriously what is your problem?

The UK is, of course, a country. So is Scotland, so is England, so is Wales. You can dig around semantics to find a definition of "country" which doesn't fit the UK or any of the others. Does it really matter??? Really???

What matters more to me is sifting through the bullshit that is put about by both sides of this debate. The biggest difference is that if you criticise anything, yes anything, about the yes side you are somehow Un-Scottish. Can you not even begin to see how offensive that is to those of us that dare to disagree with the view put forward by the SNP?

I was expecting some kind of dissection of the article I linked to earlier, which explains a lot about how the SNP operate, but no, not a word. So I guess you just don't like it. or maybe you actually agree with it. 

You assume I agree with the view put forward by the SNP.  A silly trait by unionists is to suggest that only the SNP support independence.  

I never read the article you posted.  

Eh? Who will be in charge of negotiations after a Yes vote? The SNP. That's exactly who you're voting for.
And if not their vision what is your vision? The sham Socialist Utopia that Sheridan and other clowns espouse? prepare to be disappointed, whatever the outcome.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-new-era-will-leave-radical-left-in-shadows-1-3533672


And never reading contrary articles is a great way to learn stuff. Tremendous.

Federalism isn't on the ballot paper so if you make the assumption I'm a nationalist then by the same token your a unionist.  

I am not voting for the SNP, I am voting for the future of my country.  Any team negotiating with the RUK will contain members of the SNP,it will have people from the business community, legal profession, other activists from the Left.  Afterwhich there will be elections to the Scottish parliament and the people of Scotland will get a chance to vote in a government of their chosing, not one we reject at the ballot box but are still governed by.  

Sham Socialist Utopia?  Jeez.  Who are these other clowns you speak of or is Sheridan the only socialist you know.  

[Woodsey]

It feels like the yes camp are not doing enough to get the comfortable working class and middle class on side.

I imagine, generally,  it's hard to feel as passionately 'no' as it is to feel passionately 'yes'.

Starting to look like the only hope for yes is if no folks don't feel motivated enough to get up and bother to vote on the day.

So is yes largely a working class vote?

Is there also a divide on the basis of religion? I guess a Scot could answer those best....

[shipitgood]

In Scotland only 1/3 of the population are religious with only 10% attending a religious service on a regular basis, so I don't feel religion has much to do with it at all.

To do with "class" I heard a socialist last week commenting on how good The Sun was doing in portraying a positive case for independence!

The "Yes" campaign, for a large % has little or nothing to do with the SNP.

A lot of the campaign is built around "peoples politics" which is how it has been put across in many community centres throughout the country. Broadly, a lot of this has been led by a coalition of different left wing based groups who have put on a united front with the aim of achieving independence.

These types of meetings are generally anti organised politics, especially the big 3 parties - and from what I can see they have no great love for the SNP.

It's a misconception that the Yes Campaign is all the SNP and Alex Salmond. It is a diverse lot of groups working under the yes umbrella.

These community meetings - the speakers they have produced - and general organisation have had brilliant results/ responses which no doubt goes a large way to an upsurge in more people coming across to the Yes side.

By comparison, the no Campaign has been negative, sensationalist and incoherent. It is has just been anti SNP vitriol.

It would appear the powers at westminister were not worried in the slightest expecting No to be a full gone conclusion. It's quite funny now that they are now scarpering up to Scotland to try and save the day, talking about a family of nations lol

Best bit was yesterday when they thought it would be smart to raise the saltire above no 10 to totally muck it up haha

That pretty much sums up the "no" campaign.

To do with the economy all these companies coming forward saying they will pull the plug on their operations in Scotland/ relocate to England is sensationalist and the reality in an Independent Scotland, I believe, would be quite different. If Scotland gets Independence they will have talks with all big companies and if needs be deals can be done.

It's no surprise that a big oil company today said they would pull out of Scotland. This is a total bluff, no way could they pull out of Scotland they would lose way to much money. It's just a dirty tactic similar to the ones oil companies used in Shetland when they threatened to set up a base else where if the Shetland council didn't agree to their terms. The Council leader at the time called their bluff and got exactly the deal he wanted from the Oil Companies, which to this very day means Shetland is one of the richest communities (in the UK) due to oil money.

Shetland got a far better deal than the rest of the UK. Simply, the oil companies are scared of what a new regime would mean for them.

There will be a bedding in period, and it will be interesting to see the transition of the economy in an independent Scotland, what we know for sure is that Scotland is asset rich and supports many industries.

Socially, imo, independence will be far better for Scotland. Being governed locally will make politicans a lot more accountable, as opposed to some distant parliament 100s of miles away. Importantly it will also mean no more tories in Scotland, it's hardly right Scotland being ruled by Tories, 60/70% of the time in the last 50 years it's been a Tory government. Currently the tories have 1 Scottish MP in parliement. Scotland will be ruled by people it actually wants running the country. There will be no more hated bedroom tax and a lot more will be able to be done to tackle inequality and poverty in society.

It will be really interesting over the next week to see how things transpire and uiltimatly was the outcome of the indy referendum will be

If there is a Yes vote I can only but see it as being good for Scotland.

We would still be neighbours and hopefully both administrations would be able to keep up good relations.

It's going to be a close one!