Independence Referendum

[nirvana]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

It's easy to see things differently.

I'd been starting to feel that the yessers were getting bullied a bit here but it's really just a weight of numbers thing - far more people saying 'status quo is good blah, too many risks blah' rather than 'self determination blah, save the nhs blah'.

Anyway, that's not really the point I wanted to make. Overall, when you consider the emotiveness of the issue at hand - the chat and discussion has been pretty cordial from where I sit and I have managed to pick my way through and learn a lot.

I remain fascinated to see how things go and can now present my official result prediction - No 57%

With that said, my heart wants this man to come down from above and lead my ancestors to the nirvana of independence

[celtic]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

In what way?

[OverTheBorder]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

In what way?

Some of the best debate on this referendum I have read on here, it beats fb significantly.

I think it also needs some serious and some not so serious content or it becomes too hard going.  As a Scot self deprocating humour is pretty much our national way of life. Kevin bridges makes a good living out of it.

Last few days have been tough on the yes's but the weight of available content has been heavily in the no favour. In the same way as at the start of the week the no side was struggling.

Unfortunately on blonde I often type and then delete as I bottle entering arguments. However I feel far too strongly not to comment on this.

[TightEnd]

This is heavyweight stuff, but worth the time

Head Economist at Deutsche Bank on consequences of Scottish independence: Lower bank lending; more austerity

http://research.comms.db.com/docs/fxblog_scot12sep14.pdf

[arbboy]

This is heavyweight stuff, but worth the time

Head Economist at Deutsche Bank on consequences of Scottish independence: Lower bank lending; more austerity
Yalef
http://research.comms.db.com/docs/fxblog_scot12sep14.pdf

These have got to be realistic huge nails in the coffin for even the most ardent yes voter. The sheer size of these comments from such heavyweight banking giants who have no axe to grind on the subject at all must make the majority of risk averse scots frankly shit themselves.

[mickyp]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

It's easy to see things differently.

I'd been starting to feel that the yessers were getting bullied a bit here but it's really just a weight of numbers thing - far more people saying 'status quo is good blah, too many risks blah' rather than 'self determination blah, save the nhs blah'.

Anyway, that's not really the point I wanted to make. Overall, when you consider the emotiveness of the issue at hand - the chat and discussion has been pretty cordial from where I sit and I have managed to pick my way through and learn a lot.

I remain fascinated to see how things go and can now present my official result prediction - No 57%

With that said, my heart wants this man to come down from above and lead my ancestors to the nirvana of independence

ha Jessie Rae , his father was my headmaster at primary school. Jessie is still occasionally seen walking round the town with that helmet on , but the claymore got banned as an offensive weapon.

[redsimon]

When the guy posts fake leaflets (So badly hashed up they include a logo not used until 1986!) and gets berated, you say he's being bullied!
OP berates anyone with the mildest question over the "Yes" campaign so if he dishes it out he should be big enough to take it.

[horseplayer]

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB  14s
A £100 indyref  bet on Betfair at current prices produces a profit of
£24 with NO
£280 with YES
With polls so narrow YES is the value bet

Mike is well regarded as the best political judge on twitter (i believe the no supporters have also used him as evidence during this)

[OverTheBorder]

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB  14s
A £100 indyref  bet on Betfair at current prices produces a profit of
£24 with NO
£280 with YES
With polls so narrow YES is the value bet

Mike is well regarded as the best political judge on twitter (i believe the no supporters have also used him as evidence during this)

Now it is, at 1/2 and 15/8 I don't think it was. This has been an arbers dream. The no backlash was inevitable and I suspect these are more settled prices although based on polls your right where an impartial £100 would go.

[Kmac84]

Pretty hard to read the last few pages and suggest that Kmac is not being bullied/trolled himself

I dont agree with most of what he posts but i firmly believe they are his views to which this thread keeps saying everyone is entitled to

Hi Horsey,I understand where you are coming from but I believe  that many Scots would feel they could not leave his comments unchallenged as fact when they represent a viewpoint which is extreme by any standard

That's certainly how I feel. Get particularly antagonised when he makes ridiculous statements like "The UK isn't a country" and then, when challenged, has nothing to justify it.

This is the future of my country and i care about it. Deeply.

Scotland is a country, England is a Country, Ireland is a country, Wales is a country, The UK is not. 

You clearly care about your country when you want to stay under the control of Westminister and had some pipe dream of federalism.  Your probably one of those Lib Dems who got a free education and then thought student fees were a good idea.

[Kmac84]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

In what way?

In that most of the contributors don't know what is happening in Scotland and believe what they are drip fed by the BBC/Daily Mail. 

The same people, no doubt who in private moan about Westminister but when a time has come to shake it up they believe all the fear.   These are probably the same people who thought Iraq had WMD's.

Or the self loathing Scots who are too selfish to see that massive change is needed but their attitude is I'm ok Jack so fuck everyone else. 

[TightEnd]

I have deleted another post just now. No personal insults please everyone

[Kmac84]

When the guy posts fake leaflets (So badly hashed up they include a logo not used until 1986!) and gets berated, you say he's being bullied!
OP berates anyone with the mildest question over the "Yes" campaign so if he dishes it out he should be big enough to take it.

Hardly a fake leaflet its a reproduction of Labour Rhetoric from the 1979 referendum. 

[Kmac84]

This is heavyweight stuff, but worth the time

Head Economist at Deutsche Bank on consequences of Scottish independence: Lower bank lending; more austerity
Yalef
http://research.comms.db.com/docs/fxblog_scot12sep14.pdf

These have got to be realistic huge nails in the coffin for even the most ardent yes voter. The sheer size of these comments from such heavyweight banking giants who have no axe to grind on the subject at all must make the majority of risk averse scots frankly shit themselves.

Neoliberals sticking up for their mates.  Shock horror. 

[OverTheBorder]

This Thread is a complete and utter Joke.

Wish people would take a step back and actually read what they/you have written. There is debate and then this thread.

Its embarrassing.

In what way?

In that most of the contributors don't know what is happening in Scotland and believe what they are drip fed by the BBC/Daily Mail.  

The same people, no doubt who in private moan about Westminister but when a time has come to shake it up they believe all the fear.   These are probably the same people who thought Iraq had WMD's.

Or the self loathing Scots who are too selfish to see that massive change is needed but their attitude is I'm ok Jack so fuck everyone else.  

Selfish? Is it not selfish to run a campaign on a "nothing to lose" ticket when some have considerably more to lose? Those in business and commerce need the detail and not the romantic ideal. It's by nature why they have likely been successful in their fields and why ultimately more to lose.

I have internet poker players telling me I am a traitor for voting no. People who can pick up their laptops and move overnight to most of the developed world with no impact on their earning potential. If the manifesto tagged on a 25% tax on internet poker...I wonder what they would vote