Cash Games Feedback

[cambridgealex]

Dunno Dave, if every pot was rabbit hunted then you get quite a lot less hands per hour and you'd get so many tilting ones - "I folded 73 let's see whether I would've hit my straight".

Since you can have a grey area I think banning it altogether makes sense. Ifnthe dealers a good lad can also use their discretion to do it very quickly and subtly in an appropriate hand.

[SuuPRlim]

I get that point but at the same time I think Rabbit hunting is one of the best things for a poker game.

Player folds flop and says "next card?" the dealer quickly bangs the turn card over then gets on with shuffling for the next hand, with good dealers it barely slows it down imo

[gouty]

I get that point but at the same time I think Rabbit hunting is one of the best things for a poker game.

Player folds flop and says "next card?" the dealer quickly bangs the turn card over then gets on with shuffling for the next hand, with good dealers it barely slows it down imo

I think rabbit hunting can sometimes make weaker players tilt. It just seems a bit unprofessional to me somehow? Like a home game.

[julian]

i used to frequent the 1/2 game but wasn't beating it & as a consequence wasn't enjoying it & it must be getting on for a year since i've played cash at DTD (yes i game selected poorly).
stuarts OP has opened my eyes to what i couldn't articulate, namely that the game was too competitive & played way bigger than a 1/2 should.
anyway, that's my story, what i wanted to comment on was running it twice; running it twice is only fit for home games, when playing with friends & not in a card room - IMO it destroys the integrity of the game & i cringe when i see it on the telly (other than that hellmuth hand vs the kings obv).
if a new guy sits at the table & sees a big pot go off & the outcome is that they chop it up & breath sighs of relief, it's just looks very bad (esp if new guy then tries the same but runs in someone who 'doesn't run it twice')...if you get it in with a flush draw, or call it off with top pair, that's your action & you should take your medicine.
it's like if you know three of the guys at the table are always happy to run it twice you can play your hands more aggro because, instead of either winning or losing you now have two ways not to lose, you could win it outright or chop it...the fact that it's allowed doesn't detract from the fact that it's pretty much collusion.
btw, it was great to see 4 or 5 tables of PLO going on wednesday night, great initiative tom, it looked like everyone was having a good time & i aim to jump in at some point.

[Woodsey]

4 or 5 PLO running? More details stakes etc please?

I find it hard to play midweek but might be interested now and again if my work diary allows.

[lee h]

Julian

You are absolutely right.

Run it twice is very very bad for the game in so many ways.

[SuuPRlim]

I get that point but at the same time I think Rabbit hunting is one of the best things for a poker game.

Player folds flop and says "next card?" the dealer quickly bangs the turn card over then gets on with shuffling for the next hand, with good dealers it barely slows it down imo

I think rabbit hunting can sometimes make weaker players tilt. It just seems a bit unprofessional to me somehow? Like a home game.

i dont think it makls them tilt personally, not from my experiences people just like to see. I kinda like to see sometimes as well lol I get it. I do get the point though Gouty

Actually I agree a bit with Julian about RIT, would be better if no1 knew it was an option. I never (or at least very rarely) run it twice for the reasons Julian stated but I know a lot of people like it... on the fence.

Also, why is being like a home game a bad thing?

[smashedagain]

Julian

You are absolutely right.

Run it twice is very very bad for the game in so many ways.

are you the Lee who plays all the cash games in Manchester and plays cash in Blackpool when the Gukpt is in town?

[BangBang]

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only)
Rake on everything below 2/5 and charge above. Similar to the Vic's model here.

2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +)
Love the fact the 50-1 is now the beginner game, and a nice addition at the 1-1 sizing.
The 1-2 no max is a bit daunting to have continued progression for players though, i'd much rather see a 100-450 or thereabouts...
with a half the biggest stack rebuy allowing players to still realistically get out of holes etc...

3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1)
Personally i'm a fan of straddles, if people want to put more dead money in the pot, i'm not one to be a fun sponge and not let the fish be fish

4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game)
Keep the same, no issues here IMO

5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD)
Half the biggest stack is pretty much standard in most UK venues now. Only relevant on capped games though so thoughts on 1-2 buyins need to be considered.
Potentially keep the 50-1 as standard 100 too.... if the aims a beginners game

6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD)
Should be allowed, good for all parties imo.

7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games)
I think there's certain situations, especially when a pot has escalated in the larger games that this should definitely be allowed.
Particularly in PLO where the variance is through the roof.

8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...)
This just slows the games down, fun for the occasional royal flush draws etc...

9. Spectators in the cash game area
No one sat behind, i despise this in cash games, but i'm definitely one for a quick catch up chat to see how people are getting on.

10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players
I'm used to the era of 4am and 5am at weekends here, unsure why that's changed.

11. Complementary - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games)
Spot on IMO, i'm now used to being robbed of £1 at the vic everytime when i'd much rather just tip the waitress.

12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them)
Bad Beat jackpots are a win win IMO. It's always shared throughout the club anyway so you keep the regs happy, it creates more hype to get novices and beginners playing more of the cash games. And it gets some guy calling you down when you have the absolute nuts in hope he 1 outers a bad beat jackpot? whats not to like.

13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players  
After all the recent drama in some threads, it's still one of the funniest atmospheres to play in, and you won't find decent banter at many other venues.

14. Rake on split pots (we rake)
Despise this.



Side note: whats the current rule on languages? in play / out of play etc...? and how is it being enforced if it persists? hand / round bans etc...?

Pretty much spot on...

[Gazza]

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only)
2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +)
3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1)
4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game)
5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD)
6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD)
7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games)
8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...)
9. Spectators in the cash game area
10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players
11. Complementories - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games)
12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them)
13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players
14. Rake on split pots (we rake)

1. Competing on rake isn't usually a good strategy.  Those who care about rake generally aren't the customers you're trying to entice.  That being said rake has to reasonable (10% up to £7 on 1/1 was ridiculous).  I think your current rake structure is pretty fair.  

2. 1/2 should be a capped game IMO. £500 or half the biggest stack sounds fine to me.  Players sitting with £200 at a 1/2 game shouldn't feel short-stacked.  If you leave the game uncapped with multiple straddles, it's not too dissimilar from a 2/5 game.  That may be why your 2/5 doesn't run very often.  Rest of the games are great, I like the .5/1 as an introductory game.

3. One straddle max for me.  Gives the option for those who like it, doesn't alienate those who don't too much.

6. Buy the button - sure, why not?

7. I like to run it twice (three times preferably, like to have a winner ), but can see the reasons for not allowing it.

8. Rabbit hunting, don't care as long as its done quickly.

9. Spectators - often builds interest in the game, may get new people involved.  Allow common sense to dictate when there are too many people in the cash game area.

10. 3AM is pretty early for cash to finish.

12. Rake races, bad beat jackpots I would much prefer a high hand jackpot or bad beat jackpot to a loyalty freeroll or rake race.  As an occasional visitor those types of promotions have no benefit to me and actively put me off visiting a room.  A BBJ or HHJ gives me a better chance of return on the extra 50p or whatever that you may drop per hand.

I actually far prefer HHJ or an easier to win and smaller BBJ as it flattens out variance and also returns more money to the poker economy and more frequently.

[Mitch]

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only) Rake is ok now imo, sessions deffo works out cheaper for myself, but it often leads to the breaking of games when people are considering going, and dont wanna chuck in another £7 or whatever. Maybe you could do the 'happy hour' kind of thing where the rake cap is halved from 8-9pm and and the last hour before closing (obv to get games started earlier and finishing later)


2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +) Fine. Good change in 50/1 and 1/1 to differentiate games a bit from 'begginers' tables and low stakes

3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1) Limit to one straddle on 1/1 and above imo. Open to table in the £5/10+ invite games

4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game) I think the min buy ins are fine, prob feel there needs to be a £500 max and then half biggest stack on the 1/2, after reading a lot of the feedback comments. The current min/ no limits for £2/5+

5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD) Half biggest stack seems fair

6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD) Deffo should be changed to allow, never really got why not

7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games) If the games are capped, the pots shouldnt get so big that it requires it in £1/2. Maybe just £2/5+ like the Vic do, but doesnt really bother me either way. Do agree with Julian that people could be taken advantage of a bit, or simply 'not get it'.

8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...) Hard to leave to dealer discression, id rather just get rid of it, as if it was 'allowed' it would almost deffinatley get overused

9. Spectators in the cash game area Maybe could show a bit more leniency, dont mind someones Mrs sat behind them, but not a group of mates, the odd conversation with somebody you havent seen for a while is fine, but should be left to dealer to ask them to move away if theyre particularly loud during a large pot etc. Also, players in the game should have controll over this aswell imo.

10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players 4am weekdays, 5:30 weekends was ideal. Theres deffinatley been a few times of late where ive been busy at night and not bothered coming in from, say 11:30, because it didnt seem worth it. Also people more likely to travel from further if they can get more playing hours in.

11. Complementories - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games) Amazing how much people appreciate the gesture of free food, compared to finding out they have to pay. Think the way it was is fine.

12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them) Not a fan myself, especially if tis taking extra rake. If its being taken from the rake thats already collected then obv its a nice little bonus

13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players no comment

14. Rake on split pots (we rake) Not too fussed, but it is another thing that i have heard people moan about who travel from other places. It happens so rare in holdem anyway that id you did change it, you could advertise it as a bit of an initiative to play more which people would appreciate

[titaniumbean]

First new dtd rule all suggestions in non eye hurty colors pls!

[tikay]

4 or 5 PLO running? More details stakes etc please?

I find it hard to play midweek but might be interested now and again if my work diary allows.

Me too. PLO cash every night, excellent.

[titaniumbean]

4 or 5 PLO running? More details stakes etc please?

I find it hard to play midweek but might be interested now and again if my work diary allows.

Me too. PLO cash every night, excellent.

I think that PLO lends itself alot more to low-medium stakes live poker, rather than NLH which at the top end as Stu pointed out in his succinct post  is very high intensity and and relatively pre-flop focused. Really wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of live action shifts away from NLH.

[rex008]

ouch. fyp

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only) Rake is ok now imo, sessions deffo works out cheaper for myself, but it often leads to the breaking of games when people are considering going, and dont wanna chuck in another £7 or whatever. Maybe you could do the 'happy hour' kind of thing where the rake cap is halved from 8-9pm and and the last hour before closing (obv to get games started earlier and finishing later)


2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +) Fine. Good change in 50/1 and 1/1 to differentiate games a bit from 'begginers' tables and low stakes

3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1) Limit to one straddle on 1/1 and above imo. Open to table in the £5/10+ invite games

4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game) I think the min buy ins are fine, prob feel there needs to be a £500 max and then half biggest stack on the 1/2, after reading a lot of the feedback comments. The current min/ no limits for £2/5+

5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD) Half biggest stack seems fair

6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD) Deffo should be changed to allow, never really got why not

7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games) If the games are capped, the pots shouldnt get so big that it requires it in £1/2. Maybe just £2/5+ like the Vic do, but doesnt really bother me either way. Do agree with Julian that people could be taken advantage of a bit, or simply 'not get it'.

8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...) Hard to leave to dealer discression, id rather just get rid of it, as if it was 'allowed' it would almost deffinatley get overused

9. Spectators in the cash game area Maybe could show a bit more leniency, dont mind someones Mrs sat behind them, but not a group of mates, the odd conversation with somebody you havent seen for a while is fine, but should be left to dealer to ask them to move away if theyre particularly loud during a large pot etc. Also, players in the game should have controll over this aswell imo.

10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players 4am weekdays, 5:30 weekends was ideal. Theres deffinatley been a few times of late where ive been busy at night and not bothered coming in from, say 11:30, because it didnt seem worth it. Also people more likely to travel from further if they can get more playing hours in.

11. Complementories - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games) Amazing how much people appreciate the gesture of free food, compared to finding out they have to pay. Think the way it was is fine.

12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them) Not a fan myself, especially if tis taking extra rake. If its being taken from the rake thats already collected then obv its a nice little bonus

13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players no comment

14. Rake on split pots (we rake) Not too fussed, but it is another thing that i have heard people moan about who travel from other places. It happens so rare in holdem anyway that id you did change it, you could advertise it as a bit of an initiative to play more which people would appreciate