The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Breaking: Chief whip tells Tory MPs to prepare for big Brexit vote on Lords amendments to EU withdrawal bill on June 12

will be a big day, 12 hour session to vote everything

[Woodsey]

but give me reasons why this isn't a concern? its not the pharma companies who are the problem. which comment you seemed to think was enough to dismiss an article well sourced in a broadsheet newspaper

i think we have made a tragic mistake, and am even more convinced as every day passes. the impossibility of the irish border situation and the terrible difficulty May has of appeasing her right wingers and europe simultaneously only makes it clearer

i am yet to hear from you (admittedly, very unlikely from you at any point) or any other Brexiteer convincing counter arguments that solve irish border, customs to name two things

just baseless bombast and calling people like me snowflakes.

the game for Brexit should be well and truly up. Its unachievable unless a) no deal crash out or b) soft as can be, remaining in SM and CU

Sadly Labour is led by a socialist anti capitalist who dislikes europe for other reasons so there is nothing for remainers to coalesce around.

Hence we are under a year away from something very nasty indeed

Sorry busy weekend and week ahead....  

From a Pharma co perspective from someone who isn’t even involved in the supply chain process, you simply stock up and allow longer lead times and anticipate those delays, I know the companies have been planning this from day dot.

Trust me I’ve been in this game long enough to have seen a whole bunch of enormous logistical and supply challenges where we were up shit creek with supplies, way more than delays at a port would cause. Running out of raw materials, massive batches failing QA, having to recall batches because of faulty ampoules/vials. If those can be dealt with by the talented supply chain depts in the Pharma co’s they can certainly deal with importing delays. I’m sure even a doom merchant like yourself can accept any delays would be a temporary glitch and not permanent an ongoing thing.

I don’t understand the Irish border enough to pass comment on that.

I don’t think you’re a snowflake at all, sure you have a bee in your bonnet about Brexit, but you’re not one of those types that whine and get all boo hoo about every little perceived injustice in world.

This was never going to be straight forward, who the hell ever thought it would be? Yes there will be a ton of challenges, but I firmly believe they will find a way, it’s in the EU’s interests as well as ours and that’s what will make it happen.

[nirvana]

not at all

i hope when you reply we don't get

"brexit means brexit"
"stop being a snowflake"
"get a grip"

the time has passed for such basic level bombast

and actually some constructive thoughts for solutions on irish border, customs and withdrawal/no deal and what it means

Meanwhile, i am off to stockpile some more food, OTC medical supplies and save more money (only half joking on that too)

If the EU weren't such twats and the Tories could get their act together,  it would be quite easy to deal with the customs question by agreeing zero for zero tariffs, while a free trade deal continues to be discussed over the fullness of time (up to 10 years would be OK with the WTO rules I've read).

Sadly, while the EU behaves like the EU and, much more keenly than any Brexiteer, wants there to be a winner and a loser, it's hard to imagine any sensible outcomes at the moment.. even for otherwise intelligent people.

Despite the fact that a ridiculous number of Brits also want there to be a winner and a loser, with us the loser so they can say 'I told you so' , there will be a sensible outcome because it's too important for there not to be.

The only question is whether the sensible outcome is a fair and workable Brexit or a 'let's call the whole thing off' win for the naysayers.

[ripple11]

but give me reasons why this isn't a concern? its not the pharma companies who are the problem. which comment you seemed to think was enough to dismiss an article well sourced in a broadsheet newspaper

i think we have made a tragic mistake, and am even more convinced as every day passes. the impossibility of the irish border situation and the terrible difficulty May has of appeasing her right wingers and europe simultaneously only makes it clearer

i am yet to hear from you (admittedly, very unlikely from you at any point) or any other Brexiteer convincing counter arguments that solve irish border, customs to name two things

just baseless bombast and calling people like me snowflakes.

the game for Brexit should be well and truly up. Its unachievable unless a) no deal crash out or b) soft as can be, remaining in SM and CU

Sadly Labour is led by a socialist anti capitalist who dislikes europe for other reasons so there is nothing for remainers to coalesce around.

Hence we are under a year away from something very nasty indeed

Sorry busy weekend and week ahead....  

From a Pharma co perspective from someone who isn’t even involved in the supply chain process, you simply stock up and allow longer lead times and anticipate those delays, I know the companies have been planning this from day dot.

Trust me I’ve been in this game long enough to have seen a whole bunch of enormous logistical and supply challenges where we were up shit creek with supplies, way more than delays at a port would cause. Running out of raw materials, massive batches failing QA, having to recall batches because of faulty ampoules/vials. If those can be dealt with by the talented supply chain depts in the Pharma co’s they can certainly deal with importing delays. I’m sure even a doom merchant like yourself can accept any delays would be a temporary glitch and not permanent an ongoing thing.

I don’t understand the Irish border enough to pass comment on that.

I don’t think you’re a snowflake at all, sure you have a bee in your bonnet about Brexit, but you’re not one of those types that whine and get all boo hoo about every little perceived injustice in world.

This was never going to be straight forward, who the hell ever thought it would be? Yes there will be a ton of challenges, but I firmly believe they will find a way, it’s in the EU’s interests as well as ours and that’s what will make it happen.

Agreed both sides want/ need a deal, and they want / need our 40 billion 😀

However Irish border , or lack or it, seems to be is a real problem atm.

[nirvana]

Why is the Irish border such a massive issue now but was rarely mentioned during the respective campaigns.  There were a few honourable exceptions who made, I think, genuine warnings about the tension it might create.

Unofrtunately, it was buried amongst the tsunami of bullshit trivia from the remain campaign - this web page for the remain campaign is a jolly stroll down memory lane - so childish, so poorly targeted. Almost everything is mentioned more than Ireland - in fact Ireland isn't mentioned at all. Chortle.

https://www.strongerin.co.uk/get_the_facts#qjgW5JrKFBmtLE87.97

It doesn't have to be an issue, there won't be a hard border, solutions exist or will exist if we don't obsess about timescales. The EU and remainers are making this an issue now because they think it may have more traction than the kind of nonsense in the earlier link

[DMorgan]

Irish border never came up 'cos nobody thought Leave would win and at the time the DUP didn't have the prime minister over a barrel.

Not sure why EU member states' duty to enforce their common external border for the purposes of trade is any less legitimate than the UK governments duty would be to enforce customs rules at Dover.

Actually have a fair bit of sympathy for TMay. Talked a good game early but the rest of this govt too much of a gong show to keep up the pretence of having any actionable ideas now that its game time. Not much else that she could have done about it personnel wise without capsizing the boat.

Still just about on track to deliver the obvious compromise of a soft brexit. £40bn buys a smaller membership fee for EEA + deal on immigration that she can sell at home. ECJ rulings restricted to trade stuff which the 99% can happily go back to not caring about, Ireland sorted, couple of nice announcements about overseas investment that we'd have anyway if we stayed and she can say that she delivered what the people voted for.

[TightEnd]

but give me reasons why this isn't a concern? its not the pharma companies who are the problem. which comment you seemed to think was enough to dismiss an article well sourced in a broadsheet newspaper

i think we have made a tragic mistake, and am even more convinced as every day passes. the impossibility of the irish border situation and the terrible difficulty May has of appeasing her right wingers and europe simultaneously only makes it clearer

i am yet to hear from you (admittedly, very unlikely from you at any point) or any other Brexiteer convincing counter arguments that solve irish border, customs to name two things

just baseless bombast and calling people like me snowflakes.

the game for Brexit should be well and truly up. Its unachievable unless a) no deal crash out or b) soft as can be, remaining in SM and CU

Sadly Labour is led by a socialist anti capitalist who dislikes europe for other reasons so there is nothing for remainers to coalesce around.

Hence we are under a year away from something very nasty indeed

Sorry busy weekend and week ahead.... 

From a Pharma co perspective from someone who isn’t even involved in the supply chain process, you simply stock up and allow longer lead times and anticipate those delays, I know the companies have been planning this from day dot.

Trust me I’ve been in this game long enough to have seen a whole bunch of enormous logistical and supply challenges where we were up shit creek with supplies, way more than delays at a port would cause. Running out of raw materials, massive batches failing QA, having to recall batches because of faulty ampoules/vials. If those can be dealt with by the talented supply chain depts in the Pharma co’s they can certainly deal with importing delays. I’m sure even a doom merchant like yourself can accept any delays would be a temporary glitch and not permanent an ongoing thing.

I don’t understand the Irish border enough to pass comment on that.

I don’t think you’re a snowflake at all, sure you have a bee in your bonnet about Brexit, but you’re not one of those types that whine and get all boo hoo about every little perceived injustice in world.

This was never going to be straight forward, who the hell ever thought it would be? Yes there will be a ton of challenges, but I firmly believe they will find a way, it’s in the EU’s interests as well as ours and that’s what will make it happen.

thanks for the reasonable (!) reply.

[TightEnd]

an interesting one

"I'm increasingly convinced PM wants to lose customs vote next week. Here's why."

https://infacts.org/does-pm-secretly-hope-to-lose-commons-customs-vote/

[TightEnd]

May's one-day railroad of the Brexit bill stems from 'sheer panic', say labour whips.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/may-accused-of-trying-to-railroad-a-hard-brexit-through-commons-with-just-12-hours-for-eu-withdrawal-bill_uk_5b155cdfe4b010565aae5017?cgq

[TightEnd]

Barnier Rejects Freezing Brexit Talks If No Irish Progress

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-04/barnier-rejects-freezing-brexit-talks-if-no-irish-progress

[TightEnd]

Government at ‘serious risk of three to four defeats’ in upcoming Brexit votes, Tory MP says

https://www.channel4.com/news/by/gary-gibbon/blogs/government-at-serious-risk-of-three-to-four-defeats-in-upcoming-brexit-votes-tory-mp-says

[TightEnd]

"Today the North speaks with one voice. 25 newspapers from across the North have come together to tell the Prime Minister that enough is enough. Take action now to get our railway back up and running and give the North the powers and resources we need."

anyone a regular user of Northern rail or Thameslink?

completely botched timetable changes

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/16269356.OPINION__Make_the_Northern_trains_your_priority__Prime_Minister/

[TightEnd]

"Every day that I’ve taken the train, I’ve walked into the office late". How Northern Rail chaos is screwing workers and damaging business in the North

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/northern-rail-timetable_uk_5b156209e4b02143b7ced640

[nirvana]

Irish border never came up 'cos nobody thought Leave would win and at the time the DUP didn't have the prime minister over a barrel.

Not sure why EU member states' duty to enforce their common external border for the purposes of trade is any less legitimate than the UK governments duty would be to enforce customs rules at Dover.

Actually have a fair bit of sympathy for TMay. Talked a good game early but the rest of this govt too much of a gong show to keep up the pretence of having any actionable ideas now that its game time. Not much else that she could have done about it personnel wise without capsizing the boat.

Still just about on track to deliver the obvious compromise of a soft brexit. £40bn buys a smaller membership fee for EEA + deal on immigration that she can sell at home. ECJ rulings restricted to trade stuff which the 99% can happily go back to not caring about, Ireland sorted, couple of nice announcements about overseas investment that we'd have anyway if we stayed and she can say that she delivered what the people voted for.

Last para is probably about right..A very much, as you were kind of Brexit

[TightEnd]

The Commons’ votes on the EU Withdrawal Bill are a headache for Jeremy Corbyn, too,

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/06/brexit-votes-commons-eu-withdrawal-bill-mp-theresa-may-rebels-rebellion