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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181105 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #13335 on: July 14, 2018, 08:23:29 AM »

We'll be OK. May has ruined Brexit but our relationship with the US is the highest level of the special.
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« Reply #13336 on: July 14, 2018, 09:44:42 AM »

a real must read

"We are heading towards a political crisis that likes of which none of us has seen before"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6776079/we-are-heading-toward-a-political-crisis-the-likes-of-which-none-of-us-has-seen-before-here-are-three-ways-for-may-to-sort-out-her-mess/
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« Reply #13337 on: July 14, 2018, 02:33:29 PM »

Inside the Trump/May relationship, including the weird detail that the US president rants to the British PM about how much he hates Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon. Absorbing piece

https://t.co/jtMRQfnPro

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« Reply #13338 on: July 15, 2018, 12:12:12 AM »

I used to date this girl who had a problem with me playing golf at the weekend. I'd work hard all week and then when Saturday rolled around me and a few mates would hit the course, 18 holes in the sunshine and a few pints in the clubhouse afterwards, abs bliss!! But she be like "You're gone for most of the day" or "Thought we could go shopping instead". I'm like "No love I really like the way Saturday works right now".

In the end I said enough is enough and things aren't working out etc so it's time to take a break. Well guess what? Playing golf was suddenly no problem at all!

I love all this doomsday nonsense with the EU. People think that if we leave Europe our bridges are burned forever?? Nah mate. They will prob offer us the world to stay or if conditions change we will be free to re-join at any stage. If Europe say we will never be welcome back then it's abs the right decision to make our excuses and leave this Franco-Germ dictatorship. Big wide world out there fellas!!

If only we’d bullied and threatened the EU, like you did your girlfriend. Sad little man.
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« Reply #13339 on: July 15, 2018, 12:31:42 AM »

I used to date this girl who had a problem with me playing golf at the weekend. I'd work hard all week and then when Saturday rolled around me and a few mates would hit the course, 18 holes in the sunshine and a few pints in the clubhouse afterwards, abs bliss!! But she be like "You're gone for most of the day" or "Thought we could go shopping instead". I'm like "No love I really like the way Saturday works right now".

In the end I said enough is enough and things aren't working out etc so it's time to take a break. Well guess what? Playing golf was suddenly no problem at all!

I love all this doomsday nonsense with the EU. People think that if we leave Europe our bridges are burned forever?? Nah mate. They will prob offer us the world to stay or if conditions change we will be free to re-join at any stage. If Europe say we will never be welcome back then it's abs the right decision to make our excuses and leave this Franco-Germ dictatorship. Big wide world out there fellas!!

If only we’d bullied and threatened the EU, like you did your girlfriend. Sad little man.

Had a few drinks cuckoo?
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« Reply #13340 on: July 15, 2018, 09:27:00 AM »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/989016/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-Party-Facebook-Hillary-Clinton-Donald-Trump

Not shitting on Corbyn here I bet we will see a lot of this in the not to distant future, bet it already happens with ol Trumper
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« Reply #13341 on: July 15, 2018, 02:10:47 PM »

I used to date this girl who had a problem with me playing golf at the weekend. I'd work hard all week and then when Saturday rolled around me and a few mates would hit the course, 18 holes in the sunshine and a few pints in the clubhouse afterwards, abs bliss!! But she be like "You're gone for most of the day" or "Thought we could go shopping instead". I'm like "No love I really like the way Saturday works right now".

In the end I said enough is enough and things aren't working out etc so it's time to take a break. Well guess what? Playing golf was suddenly no problem at all!

I love all this doomsday nonsense with the EU. People think that if we leave Europe our bridges are burned forever?? Nah mate. They will prob offer us the world to stay or if conditions change we will be free to re-join at any stage. If Europe say we will never be welcome back then it's abs the right decision to make our excuses and leave this Franco-Germ dictatorship. Big wide world out there fellas!!

If only we’d bullied and threatened the EU, like you did your girlfriend. Sad little man.

Just to conclude this story about relationships folks because it's rather apt.

I met the above girl in 1992 when I was like 18 or 19 and a real golf nut, still am in fact. I did kinda bluff her about taking a break from the relationship because I felt anxious about my freedom being eroded. The following year I got down on one knee and proposed to her, she said yes, boom! Fast forward 25 years and we're still together, worship the ground she walks on. Haven't actually got married yet as you can't rush into big decisions like that.

But sometimes you do need to dig your heels in to get the kind of relationship you want. So similarly with EU relationship I think we should stand firm on certain freedoms to try and culture a happier longterm relationship. The longer this debacle continues the more No Deal appeals to me.

Incidentally, I haven't played golf on a Saturday for over 20yrs so the mrs did get her way as she always does. I play on Mondays now. Sometimes Thursdays as well.   
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« Reply #13342 on: July 15, 2018, 05:11:01 PM »

Sounds like your relationship example supports the Remain argument; you know the relationship is good for you long term so you have to make changes from within.
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« Reply #13343 on: July 15, 2018, 05:21:05 PM »

Yea you're right and ultimately I would like to Remain mate.

More democracy in leadership together with a better framework of freedom and control, sure thing. Few points in the Eurovision song contest wouldn't hurt as well.

EU is saying our way or the highway tho. Under those terms I say highway all day long.
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« Reply #13344 on: July 16, 2018, 08:40:43 AM »

Could it actually happen?




Justine Greening calls for second Brexit referendum - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44840154
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« Reply #13345 on: July 16, 2018, 11:18:28 AM »

Thank God Donald is arriving soon.....he'll sort us out.

Sue 'em...sue the whole god damn EU.


Man's a genius
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« Reply #13346 on: July 16, 2018, 10:45:59 PM »

On the news today they were talking about the drop in net migration with the rest of the EU to 100k. The general portrayal was about how dramatic the drop was from the numbers in 2013 of 184k and had a negative slant by featuring a couple moving to Berlin because of how terrible things were since the Brexit referendum. Never mind either, the fact that the rate of EU net migration remains high in historical terms.

If we unpick that a bit - 100,000 more people came than left and the section featured one of the couples going out rather than interview a couple coming in - one assumes the couple coming in would have a hugely positive tale to tell of opportunity and self improvement but that's not the story ?

At the same time as we have continued to attract people since 2016, our unemployment rate has continued to fall and we have the 6th lowest rate of unemployment in the EU, even now, when the sky notionally fell in 2 yrs ago and people stopped investing in Britain.

This 100k figure also doesn't stack up with 2 popular schools of thought at the time of the referendum

a) No one would come here any more to fill vital jobs due to uncertainty
b) Even more would come to try and beat the deadline when the drawbridge would come down.

Like, literally no one knows anything about the future so I think it is time to stop worrying about what might happen and start working on making a decent future happen. One thing I know to a 110% degree, and I think I may be the only person in the UK who knows this. The future will continue to develop in a way that is only very marginally affected by Brexit or not.

We shouldn't really confuse Tory party incompetence with respect to execution, and smoke and mirrors, with a perspective on whether Brexit will be marginally positive or marginally negative over say a 10 year time horizon.

Anyway, can anyone tell me when the house prices are due to drop the promised 18% as I really want to buy one but I want a bargain - with a big larder for canned foods.

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« Reply #13347 on: July 17, 2018, 05:22:08 PM »

On the news today they were talking about the drop in net migration with the rest of the EU to 100k. The general portrayal was about how dramatic the drop was from the numbers in 2013 of 184k and had a negative slant by featuring a couple moving to Berlin because of how terrible things were since the Brexit referendum. Never mind either, the fact that the rate of EU net migration remains high in historical terms.

If we unpick that a bit - 100,000 more people came than left and the section featured one of the couples going out rather than interview a couple coming in - one assumes the couple coming in would have a hugely positive tale to tell of opportunity and self improvement but that's not the story ?

At the same time as we have continued to attract people since 2016, our unemployment rate has continued to fall and we have the 6th lowest rate of unemployment in the EU, even now, when the sky notionally fell in 2 yrs ago and people stopped investing in Britain.

This 100k figure also doesn't stack up with 2 popular schools of thought at the time of the referendum

a) No one would come here any more to fill vital jobs due to uncertainty
b) Even more would come to try and beat the deadline when the drawbridge would come down.

Like, literally no one knows anything about the future so I think it is time to stop worrying about what might happen and start working on making a decent future happen. One thing I know to a 110% degree, and I think I may be the only person in the UK who knows this. The future will continue to develop in a way that is only very marginally affected by Brexit or not.

We shouldn't really confuse Tory party incompetence with respect to execution, and smoke and mirrors, with a perspective on whether Brexit will be marginally positive or marginally negative over say a 10 year time horizon.

Anyway, can anyone tell me when the house prices are due to drop the promised 18% as I really want to buy one but I want a bargain - with a big larder for canned foods.

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You don't think the dramatic turn in the red line since June 2016, such that net immigration from the EU dropped from almost equal to ROW to less than half of it in 15 months, is significant (and worrying)?

I agree that the execution is a different issue to the rights and wrongs of Brexit but, if you think the effect of Brexit will be marginal, you haven't been paying attention.

Regarding your house, it already fell in value by 10% the day after the referendum, along with your salary, savings, pension, and everything else you own that is denominated in Sterling.
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« Reply #13348 on: July 17, 2018, 06:16:06 PM »

I think we hold such different views on most things that perhaps your questions are just rhetorical but they are interesting points so here goes

a) No, I'm not worried by the shift in the relative amounts of EU v non EU net migration but perhaps I should be - is there a reason I should be ?

b) I mentioned marginal in the context of the economy alone without actually saying that. That is what I think but I don't know and don't feel as certain as you are. I am fairly confident that the UK economy will outperform many EU countries , even if we leave, so I think the logical extension of this is that it's impossible to say inside EU = positive, outside = negative.

c) I'm not sure of your point with respect to my house and salary dropping in value but I'm sure you must be right or you wouldn't say it. For a number of reasons relating to how my pension monies are invested I can say that you're wrong on this.

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« Reply #13349 on: July 18, 2018, 02:06:05 AM »

I think we hold such different views on most things that perhaps your questions are just rhetorical but they are interesting points so here goes

a) No, I'm not worried by the shift in the relative amounts of EU v non EU net migration but perhaps I should be - is there a reason I should be ?

b) I mentioned marginal in the context of the economy alone without actually saying that. That is what I think but I don't know and don't feel as certain as you are. I am fairly confident that the UK economy will outperform many EU countries , even if we leave, so I think the logical extension of this is that it's impossible to say inside EU = positive, outside = negative.

c) I'm not sure of your point with respect to my house and salary dropping in value but I'm sure you must be right or you wouldn't say it. For a number of reasons relating to how my pension monies are invested I can say that you're wrong on this.

I have just been catching up on these threads. They used to be really interesting, including the contributions from people whose views I don't agree with, but it was quite depressing going through the recent posts, with one contributor filling the threads with nonsense, on top of the guy we already have who takes unpleasant Trump-like shots at all-and-sundry. So I'll say thanks to you for a civil and restrained response.

a) Well, for one thing, we are going to need the manpower as the original population gets older. It appears that the number returning to EU countries is picking up pace. Overall, there are still more coming in than leaving, so maybe it's okay, but the trend is the wrong way, so it's a concern.

b) The UK economy may outperform some EU countries but that's not the question. It's whether this country would be better or worse off if we leave the EU or stay in. I don't think there's any doubt that we have suffered since the referendum compared to where we would have been. Many Brexiteers say they are willing to accept short-term economic pain for long-term benefits, economic or other. In my view, this is mistaken, as I think it is very clear that the long-term economic outlook will be worse Out rather than In - the only question is the degree; will it be a little bit worse, utterly disastrous or somewhere in between? I think all indications are that it will be close to disastrous, but I could be wrong and it might only be really bad but survivable.

c) I phrased it as 'you' but, clearly, I meant the general position for people in the country. I am pleased for you that you have reduced your exposure to Sterling and/or the UK economy, but most people don't have that opportunity, so their assets have suffered a dramatic fall in value. Whatever you have done kinda undermines your statement of confidence in the UK economy though.
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