The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

Duties for imported items ?

Which of the products the industry imports would be subject to 40% duties -did anyone say ?

[Mark_Porter]

Think the PMs speech was really surprising tonight. Essentially saying the MPs are fucking it all up for you, I am with you guys and just want to get it done.

I guess she is trying to rile up such a public outcry that the PMs feel strong armed into just voting it through.

I would imagine that changing the deal to one that MPs would reasonably vote through would have been a better approach but I guess that is just not possible. I don't know what it would mean but I hope they vote it down again, if it's not been right the first two times then we shouldn't just give up because we have run out of time. I expect she brings back basically the same deal and it squeaks through out of fear.

[Woodsey]

Fuck the EU, sick of it now....

Put the ball back in their court, agree to one of the backstop proposals that have been submitted or we take no deal.

Your choice, fuck you very much......

[4KSuited]

Can’t say I blame the EU for their position. They’ve made it clear that this deal is now non-negotiable (other than by exercising the no deal option), and it doesn’t really seem a bad deal to me.... apart from:

The Irish border problem, which isn’t one of their making, and it seems that the key to the whole process are the 10 DUP MPs. Jesus, can’t you get them to accept a customs border in the Irish Sea? Their economy would absolutely boom, ffs, and they’re probably planning to go all medieval on us.

Can’t help but think that it’s only another election that will eliminate the DUP’s control. Corbyn’s Labour are so disfunctional (& inept) that they can’t fail to fail, and surely TM can’t screw up another campaign as badly as the last one. Trouble is, the Tories might self-combust at the prospect of another 5 years of May. Unless she does a deal to leave as soon as Brexit is complete.

What a clusterfuck this continues to be. And don’t get me started on Bercow 

[Jon MW]

Was at a meeting today of UK industry construction chiefs, and it seems that it has only just dawned on them that operating under WTO terms means duty increases on goods to 40%.

The place was in a blind panic.

It was pointed out that concluding terms with individual countries needs to be got on with rather than bury heads in sand.

What I learnt was we seem so preoccupied at a high level with the actual IN or OUT that very little has actually been done about the nitty gritty.

One guy who was appointed on a very high salary, by a mega Corporate, to keep on top of this has only had two meetings with Parliament in 2 years, because they kept putting them off. This is a construction giant.

Incred.

Speaking of the effect on business - I saw a programme which had a section on Brexit. It showed a clip of a flower importer in the UK saying that he'll be put out of business if there's a No Deal Brexit because any delays make his business untenable (it looked like it might have been a clip from Sky News).

He voted for Brexit and when asked just said that he didn't think about the consequences for his business - not everybody has quite such a disastrous consequence but how many millions of leave voters do you think gave it so little thought?

Although I think referendums are terrible I think a clear exit strategy now might be for the Government to say - Parliament has voted we can't have No Deal so we'll have a referendum with the only options being "Current Deal" or "Stay in the EU".

I think this is politically possible - although that might be optimism - but I don't think it's necessarily likely.

[kukushkin88]

A man with integrity:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-dominic-grieve-theresa-may-tory-mp-deal-vote-conservative-party-a8832516.html%3famp

It’s an extraordinary speech, May and Grieve used to be friends.

[BigAdz]

Duties for imported items ?

Which of the products the industry imports would be subject to 40% duties -did anyone say ?

The example given was a company exporting spare parts to India. They have been shipped but won't arrive until after the 29th. If no agreement is made, he has been told he will have to pay 40% duty on them or they will be impounded, until he does.

[BigAdz]

This whole thing is like being forced to stay in a job you hate. Sure there are parts of the job that are ok. The people you work with are fine, the fiscal situation is ok, but could be better, but fundamentally you want to leave because the bosses are idiots.

However, whichever way you turn, they won't let you. Tying you in so that bonus you have earned will never get paid, if you leave. Threatening you with penalties if you do, and a shit reference preventing you getting another job.

Ironic when you joined them in the first place because they were for the good of everyone, all smiles and couldn't be more helpful....

[MANTIS01]

Was at a meeting today of UK industry construction chiefs, and it seems that it has only just dawned on them that operating under WTO terms means duty increases on goods to 40%.

The place was in a blind panic.

It was pointed out that concluding terms with individual countries needs to be got on with rather than bury heads in sand.

What I learnt was we seem so preoccupied at a high level with the actual IN or OUT that very little has actually been done about the nitty gritty.

One guy who was appointed on a very high salary, by a mega Corporate, to keep on top of this has only had two meetings with Parliament in 2 years, because they kept putting them off. This is a construction giant.

Incred.

Speaking of the effect on business - I saw a programme which had a section on Brexit. It showed a clip of a flower importer in the UK saying that he'll be put out of business if there's a No Deal Brexit because any delays make his business untenable (it looked like it might have been a clip from Sky News).

He voted for Brexit and when asked just said that he didn't think about the consequences for his business - not everybody has quite such a disastrous consequence but how many millions of leave voters do you think gave it so little thought?

Although I think referendums are terrible I think a clear exit strategy now might be for the Government to say - Parliament has voted we can't have No Deal so we'll have a referendum with the only options being "Current Deal" or "Stay in the EU".

I think this is politically possible - although that might be optimism - but I don't think it's necessarily likely.

But the complications have been caused by the subsequent divisions and the inept negotiations as opposed to the original decision

So the real question is how many Leave voters anticipated that their decision would be rejected by so many and the aftermath handled with such ineptitude?

I would say very few. But then again to vote against your conviction because of these possible factors would’ve been nonsensical.

[nirvana]

Duties for imported items ?

Which of the products the industry imports would be subject to 40% duties -did anyone say ?

The example given was a company exporting spare parts to India. They have been shipped but won't arrive until after the 29th. If no agreement is made, he has been told he will have to pay 40% duty on them or they will be impounded, until he does.

I don't know much about tariffs on Indian imports from the EU today so hard to know how much has actually changed. Tough though if the delta is 40%.if there's no deal

[RED-DOG]

Why is it called a meaningful vote?

[kukushkin88]

Why is it called a meaningful vote?

It’s a long read but interesting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaningful_vote

Cliffs:

The government didn’t want Parliament to have a say on the terms of Brexit, they lost a High Court ruling (Gina Miller) and it was determined that Parliament would have to ratify the final deal. That requirement for the approval of Parliament has become known as the ‘meaningful vote’. I think Kier Starmer coined the phrase but I can’t find evidence of that atm.

[RED-DOG]

Why is it called a meaningful vote?

It’s a long read but interesting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaningful_vote

Cliffs:

The government didn’t want Parliament to have a say on the terms of Brexit, they lost a High Court ruling (Gina Miller) and it was determined that Parliament would have to ratify the final deal. That requirement for the approval of Parliament has become known as the ‘meaningful vote’. I think Kier Starmer coined the phrase but I can’t find evidence of that atm.

Oh yes, I remember that case now. Thanks Mr Ushkin.

[ripple11]

Market refers to third Meaningful Vote held by the House of Commons to approve the government's EU withdrawal agreement, referred to as the "deal". If a third Meaningful Vote does not take place before 30th March 2019 this market will be voided.

Deal Not To Pass
8/11

Deal To Pass
1/1


Even money ?....huge pressure to get this passed now. Labour MP's looking to put in amendment so some (enough?) can now vote for it,,

The result of THAT May speech last night......


Now   11/5 for deal to pass.
          2/5 not to pass.

[Jon MW]

Was at a meeting today of UK industry construction chiefs, and it seems that it has only just dawned on them that operating under WTO terms means duty increases on goods to 40%.

The place was in a blind panic.

It was pointed out that concluding terms with individual countries needs to be got on with rather than bury heads in sand.

What I learnt was we seem so preoccupied at a high level with the actual IN or OUT that very little has actually been done about the nitty gritty.

One guy who was appointed on a very high salary, by a mega Corporate, to keep on top of this has only had two meetings with Parliament in 2 years, because they kept putting them off. This is a construction giant.

Incred.

Speaking of the effect on business - I saw a programme which had a section on Brexit. It showed a clip of a flower importer in the UK saying that he'll be put out of business if there's a No Deal Brexit because any delays make his business untenable (it looked like it might have been a clip from Sky News).

He voted for Brexit and when asked just said that he didn't think about the consequences for his business - not everybody has quite such a disastrous consequence but how many millions of leave voters do you think gave it so little thought?

Although I think referendums are terrible I think a clear exit strategy now might be for the Government to say - Parliament has voted we can't have No Deal so we'll have a referendum with the only options being "Current Deal" or "Stay in the EU".

I think this is politically possible - although that might be optimism - but I don't think it's necessarily likely.

But the complications have been caused by the subsequent divisions and the inept negotiations as opposed to the original decision

So the real question is how many Leave voters anticipated that their decision would be rejected by so many and the aftermath handled with such ineptitude?

I would say very few. But then again to vote against your conviction because of these possible factors would’ve been nonsensical.

That's a good argument in isolation but this person said the exact words, "I didn't think about it" - and I'm really not convinced that would be different to a lot of others.

It's true that a lot of Remain voters probably also gave it little thought - but at least that option wasn't going to cause the damage and disruption that leave was always going to.