The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

At these commemorations for DDay I'm surprised each time by the level of bravery, how young so many troops were and am filled with admiration for the British people. Makes the constant dismissal of old people as xenophobes, racists etc to suit people's identitarian nonsense all the more jarring.

But people like Aaron have no respect at all for the past and what people have done for them.

They have been brought up in a world, where despite screaming austerity at every corner, have never wanted for anything. They have never experienced the true fear of loved ones going to war, or losing family in such a way.

They have zero understanding or acceptance of anyone else's views but themselves and even after denying time after time they have called Brexiteers racists, then call it The Racist Party, and no doubt in 2 pages times claim again  they never called anyone a racist.

As you say. You see those dear old fellas, and read Aaron's comments and it sickens me the lack of respect and humility shown by so many in this country.

Good post Adz

Yep, good posts.

[TightEnd]

Dom Raab has refused to rule out proroguing Parliament to ensure Britain leaves without a deal on October 31 (speaking in the One nation hustings)

This is what senior figures in the ERG have been demanding - get round MPs by simply pushing the nuclear button and proroguing

Proroguing? Dissolve parliament temporarily.

thoughts about that?!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/104373/fresh-tory-leadership-row-dominic-raab-suggests-he-could

[TightEnd]

i don't know if anyone saw it, about 3pm yesterday on the BBC news channel but the McCoy interview with the 94 year old veteran was 15 minutes of moving tv.

I don't post as an anti-brexit thing (this particular vet thought it was a shame but thats by the by), but its worth catching if you see clips

good interviewing, humble interviewer

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/d-day-veteran-normandy-landings-75-anniversary-brexit-worries-me/

[TightEnd]

what a wonderful story (apochryphal or not)

Lord Carrington heard that Boris Johnson had resigned as Foreign Secretary, pumped his fist, and immediately died aged 96.

[TightEnd]

@Peston

According to a couple of Tory sources, Gavin Williamson’s patter when lobbying MPs on behalf of Boris is

“Yes I don’t really like him either but he’s going to win so you might as well get on board”.

:-)

[TightEnd]

A great watch, and quite the allegation. Will make a great film one day

[4KSuited]

Every time I find myself coming around to the Better the Remain devil you know case, rather than the Brexit devil you don’t, I come across a news article such as this one with regard to Italy:

“Italy’s leaders rejected EU calls to end their spending spree as Brussels approved disciplinary procedures that could lead to a €3.5bn fine. The European Commission said that Italy’s public debt would soar to 135% of GDP by next year, second only to Greece. The EU said it would pull back if Rome agreed to cut its debt, by Matteo Salvini, the joint deputy prime minister, rebuffed any deal. The League party leader claims that only by spending on tax reduction and pension rises can Italy boost its GDP. If EU members back the commission’s decision in the next two weeks, disciplinary action would be taken against Rome.”

Source: The Times, 28 June 2019

On the one hand, if a member nation wants to be obdurate, it seems that the EU are fairly powerless. On the other hand, the EU seems to be able to choose whether or not it wishes to waive compliance of its financial rules - so why can’t they consider waiving key rules in our endeavors to leave in an orderly fashion? Surely the long term economic impact of Italy imploding under the weight of public debt is far greater than that of the UK being granted trading favours? The EU will certainly need to be able to spread the weight of Italy’s burden, don’t you think, Tighty?

[Pokerpops]

A great watch, and quite the allegation. Will make a great film one day

Conspiracy theories are always fascinating.
Great work if it turns out to be true that Farage was deliberately talking down the prospect of a Leave win in order to make money mind.

What was the relevance of the ordering of Oysters? Or the fact that Nigel was the third generation of his family to eat at Sweetings?

[TightEnd]

Every time I find myself coming around to the Better the Remain devil you know case, rather than the Brexit devil you don’t, I come across a news article such as this one with regard to Italy:

“Italy’s leaders rejected EU calls to end their spending spree as Brussels approved disciplinary procedures that could lead to a €3.5bn fine. The European Commission said that Italy’s public debt would soar to 135% of GDP by next year, second only to Greece. The EU said it would pull back if Rome agreed to cut its debt, by Matteo Salvini, the joint deputy prime minister, rebuffed any deal. The League party leader claims that only by spending on tax reduction and pension rises can Italy boost its GDP. If EU members back the commission’s decision in the next two weeks, disciplinary action would be taken against Rome.”

Source: The Times, 28 June 2019

On the one hand, if a member nation wants to be obdurate, it seems that the EU are fairly powerless. On the other hand, the EU seems to be able to choose whether or not it wishes to waive compliance of its financial rules - so why can’t they consider waiving key rules in our endeavors to leave in an orderly fashion? Surely the long term economic impact of Italy imploding under the weight of public debt is far greater than that of the UK being granted trading favours? The EU will certainly need to be able to spread the weight of Italy’s burden, don’t you think, Tighty?

Italy, and Greece before it and maybe Portugal after it are certainly strong arguments for reform

accepting that, there is still no solution to the Irish Border or the UK economy that makes Brexit workable (that the EU/Ireland will accept in the first case, or available technology for the second part).

I argue for reform from within but as that argument was lost in a 48-52 vote it still remains, how do you do it, practically in a Parliament that hates all options... by October 2019?

[nirvana]

A great watch, and quite the allegation. Will make a great film one day

Might have to admire him if he played a long con on this scale

[Pokerpops]

Every time I find myself coming around to the Better the Remain devil you know case, rather than the Brexit devil you don’t, I come across a news article such as this one with regard to Italy:

“Italy’s leaders rejected EU calls to end their spending spree as Brussels approved disciplinary procedures that could lead to a €3.5bn fine. The European Commission said that Italy’s public debt would soar to 135% of GDP by next year, second only to Greece. The EU said it would pull back if Rome agreed to cut its debt, by Matteo Salvini, the joint deputy prime minister, rebuffed any deal. The League party leader claims that only by spending on tax reduction and pension rises can Italy boost its GDP. If EU members back the commission’s decision in the next two weeks, disciplinary action would be taken against Rome.”

Source: The Times, 28 June 2019

On the one hand, if a member nation wants to be obdurate, it seems that the EU are fairly powerless. On the other hand, the EU seems to be able to choose whether or not it wishes to waive compliance of its financial rules - so why can’t they consider waiving key rules in our endeavors to leave in an orderly fashion? Surely the long term economic impact of Italy imploding under the weight of public debt is far greater than that of the UK being granted trading favours? The EU will certainly need to be able to spread the weight of Italy’s burden, don’t you think, Tighty?

Italy, and Greece before it and maybe Portugal after it are certainly strong arguments for reform

accepting that, there is still no solution to the Irish Border or the UK economy that makes Brexit workable (that the EU/Ireland will accept in the first case, or available technology for the second part).

I argue for reform from within but as that argument was lost in a 48-52 vote it still remains, how do you do it, practically in a Parliament that hates all options... by October 2019?

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall much being made of a ‘Reform from within’ attitude during the referendum. The main argument from Remain was that the EU was great and that if we left there would be hell to pay.
Cameron came back from his efforts to achieve change and said “This is as good as it gets”.

[TightEnd]

i recall plenty of reform from within, on here too.

recently i have been talking about a path to revoke, which attracts a lot of concessions from the EU (whether financial or reform) in exchange for a commitment to stay, as what maybe the final coda to a pretty grim three years pre-during-post negotiations that failed. weneed to go through more failure, 31st October, parliament blocking no deal etc before that gets talked about a lot though

if we do leave with no deal i still think there is a majority view that there will be if not "hell to pay" then severe consequences just some of that majority think its a price worth paying to get out.

[TightEnd]

Recognise anyone? (from Britain thinks)

[TightEnd]

Brexit affinities are now stronger than traditional party identities

[BigAdz]

Recognise anyone? (from Britain thinks)

I dont think Top left exists like that.

For all the Remainers hyperbole, no Brexiteer has NO concerns about the future, we all have our concerns, as we did at the start, but are prepared to dive into the unknown rather than stay with the Quo....