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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181088 times)
Doobs
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« Reply #2295 on: April 28, 2016, 04:38:02 PM »

Livingstone's basic comments (that Naz Shah's comments weren't anti-semitic) were correct, but then he ruins all that with his stupid Hitler comments.

Then the dribbling idiot John Mann makes Livingstone look reasonable by ranting and calling him a Nazi in front of the cameras.

Labour just seem to make a habit of trying to catch falling knives at the pointy end.

Yeah John Mann should be suspended for been a mighty cockend.  I read it and assumed he musn't have been aware of the cameras, but saw the video clip and there were so many cameras about he had to fight his way through them to call Hitler a Nazi apologist.

I don't know if people are aware but Livingstone said that Hitler's initial policy was to move Jews to Isreal so he was a zionist.

I think it is dangerous shouting anti Semitism too much.  You can be against Israel building great big walls, stealing land and making it impossible for people to work and not be anti semite. 

It is a shame about Naz Shah, she has had a hugely difficult life and to come through that and make it as an MP is some achievement.  She also had to put up with a lot of crap thrown her way by George Galloway in the election campaign.  I see people post worse on facebook weekly.  Comparing sharing an ill judged facebook share and Hitler's policy of forced repatriation seems a stretch.

Livingstone has a lot of history though, and should know that he is bound to cause offence, so it is harder to excuse him. 
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« Reply #2296 on: April 28, 2016, 09:09:55 PM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #2297 on: April 29, 2016, 12:23:49 AM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?
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AndrewT
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« Reply #2298 on: April 29, 2016, 02:15:25 AM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?

'actual anti-semitism'
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #2299 on: April 29, 2016, 07:54:11 AM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?


'actual anti-semitism'


Yes, implying Hitler and the six million people he exterminated had shared interests is deliberately hurtful. It was not a gaff, Ken knew what he was doing, lots of anti Semites make the same nazi comparison because it is so upsetting
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #2300 on: April 29, 2016, 10:23:06 AM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?

Indeed.  Having Cameron as the main focus of your anger in this sorry episode to the extent you call him the c-bomb is perverse.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #2301 on: April 29, 2016, 11:31:44 AM »

the guardian no less

"Party members assumed they were the good guys, incapable of prejudice. But now Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah have laid bare the left’s capacity for racism"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/28/antisemitism-rocked-labour-self-belief
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« Reply #2302 on: April 29, 2016, 11:46:24 AM »

It seems the Leave/Stay vote is on more of a knife-edge than the bookies odds suggest.

I think it was 1987 (may have been 1992) when all the polls suggested that the Tories couldn't possibly win the election; but when it came to actually casting votes, the public chose differently from what they told the pollsters. I'm feeling a similar vibe in this contest.

The last Ipsos-Mori poll (I think) indicates a very close thing, with the Leavers just shading it, but most of the polls have suggested a big Stay advantage. Obama's intervention may well have back-fired on the Stayers; was there ever a time that you wanted to do what a foreign politician (on his way out) told you to do? Even if it meant that you might have to get to the back of the queue when negotiating trade deals?

Last night's QT audience were illustrative of the fact that it's the 'ordinary people' who make the most persuasive points in these debates, as they can't be accused of politicking or toeing the line. I think it's dawning on a lot more people that unrestricted immigration - an additional 3m people by 2030 from the existing EU members - will only add further pressure to housing shortages, employment opportunities and an already nearly broken NHS. These legitimate concerns appear to be outweighing the alleged (since it's hard to prove the accuracy of forecasts, lol) economic benefits of staying in.

There also appears to be little argument over the fact that Leaving will allow us to take better control of our own borders and sovereignty. I believe that it's simply wrong to suggest that the UK govt will shred everything about the Bill of Human Rights for example; what is right will be retained, what is wrong will be ejected - it's why we have elected representatives in the House of Commons. The biggest weakness in the Leave campaign is it's paucity of big political hitters, but Mr & Mrs Joe Public seem to be finding their own voice.
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MintTrav
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« Reply #2303 on: April 29, 2016, 01:15:17 PM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?

Indeed.  Having Cameron as the main focus of your anger in this sorry episode to the extent you call him the c-bomb is perverse.

There hasn't been any anti-Semitism or racism. Shah and Livingstone made posts/comments that you may or may not appreciate, but were not racist. The while episode is a load of nonsense blown up by opportunists (such as Cameron).

On the other hand, I have no idea why Livingstone got into a debate about what happened in 1932. Tighty is right - there are so many more important things than this to argue about.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #2304 on: April 29, 2016, 01:25:00 PM »

They were not racist?

I have a bit of sympathy with Shah (where she has got to from a difficult background is admirable and her apology was quick and genuine), but Ken is just a berk and has been an anti-west anti israel borderline anti-semite trot for about 35 years as far as i can tell.

Had to laugh when he appeared on about 10 tv and radio programmes after his 1932 comments yesterday. why didn't someone in the labour party get him to shut up, stop and stop digging?

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« Reply #2305 on: April 29, 2016, 01:35:38 PM »

PC Wanker gets pulled up by Ultra PC Wankers  Cheesy
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« Reply #2306 on: April 29, 2016, 01:57:01 PM »

I don't know if what he said was anti semitic per se. However, if you assert that Hitler was a Zionist during his sane phase, just before his mad phase, what exact point are you trying to make that is relevant to the world we know today ?

Worth a suspension just for being a moron and then being unable to get rid of the lunatic shouting at him, and then smiling like a moron..a lot.. and then coming out of yr house with braces on.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #2307 on: April 29, 2016, 02:04:26 PM »

Sometimes Cameron doesn't seem too bad, and then he shows his true colours. Attacking her for talking about the 'transportation of people' and using the word 'solution', in a manner that suggested clearly (but didn't say) that she was referring to the Nazis' final solution, was as disgraceful a piece of double-speak as I have ever heard. Nothing she posted gave any indication that she was referring to that. He is the only one doing so, by twisting her words. He is such a c.unt sometimes.

Two Labour MPs suspended for actual anti semitism but Cameron is the bad man for exaggerating how bad it was?

Indeed.  Having Cameron as the main focus of your anger in this sorry episode to the extent you call him the c-bomb is perverse.

There hasn't been any anti-Semitism or racism. Shah and Livingstone made posts/comments that you may or may not appreciate, but were not racist. The while episode is a load of nonsense blown up by opportunists (such as Cameron).

On the other hand, I have no idea why Livingstone got into a debate about what happened in 1932. Tighty is right - there are so many more important things than this to argue about.

Perhaps at this point it is worth us reminding ourselves of what has happened.

2 Labour members have been suspended.

Labour's own website "LabourList" has run the following articles in the last 2 days:

"Party too slow to tackle anti-Semitism, Andy Burnham says"
"Labour has serious problem with anti-Semitism says party peer"
"The cancer of anti-Semitism could destroy Labour - it's time to weed out the bigots"  (this article kicks off with "Labour has a problem with Jews")

At the end of all this, your only conclusion is to call Cameron an opportunist for raising the issue, and furthermore call him a c***.

Frankly your approach here is borderline offensive.  Do you honestly think Labour agree with you that there isn't a problem?


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« Reply #2308 on: April 29, 2016, 02:26:45 PM »

 
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #2309 on: April 29, 2016, 02:35:08 PM »

It also seems Livingstone said "It is over the top to consider anti-Semitism and racism as exactly the same thing"

People honestly don't have a problem with that?  Are Jewish people now below other minority groups?
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