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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2167969 times)
JohnCharver
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« Reply #3870 on: June 26, 2016, 07:51:51 PM »

Labour have been finished as a serious party for ages now.  As soon as they lost the Scottish vote they were done.  The tories should never have got a majority in the last GE but were gifted it by Labour.  The fact Labour will now lose a monster chunk of votes in their English heartlands and will never be able to win the key swing seats in middle England (maybe not even finish 2nd now in most of these seats never mind win them).

I don't understand why people think leaving the EU is so bad since we voted for it.  Everything we were warned would happen financially short term has happened so far.  There are no surprises.  There will always be short term pain financially just like setting up a new business you don't turn a profit in the first year.  This is no different.

Why wouldn't a Boris or Gove risk their political life/image going for it and making it work?  There is no reason why in 10-20 years this could be looked back on as a great decision by the UK voters to leave the EU when we did (being ahead of the game so to speak) in a results orientated manner if and when the EU collapses.

Boris, Gove and IDS were always going to be high up in the tory foodchain, the only reasonable explanation for any of their actions is they want to be top dogs, remove their glass ceilings under the current regime by executing them. You dont gamble it all for something better then say actually Ive made a mistake here and head of into the sun. They knew what they were doing and will know what they wanted all along. Id be surprised if Gove/IDS havent already got jobs promised.

Labour need to elect Ummuna or milburn soon.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 07:53:56 PM by JohnCharver » Logged
arbboy
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« Reply #3871 on: June 26, 2016, 07:54:20 PM »

Labour have been finished as a serious party for ages now.  As soon as they lost the Scottish vote they were done.  The tories should never have got a majority in the last GE but were gifted it by Labour.  The fact Labour will now lose a monster chunk of votes in their English heartlands and will never be able to win the key swing seats in middle England (maybe not even finish 2nd now in most of these seats never mind win them).

I don't understand why people think leaving the EU is so bad since we voted for it.  Everything we were warned would happen financially short term has happened so far.  There are no surprises.  There will always be short term pain financially just like setting up a new business you don't turn a profit in the first year.  This is no different.

Why wouldn't a Boris or Gove risk their political life/image going for it and making it work?  There is no reason why in 10-20 years this could be looked back on as a great decision by the UK voters to leave the EU when we did (being ahead of the game so to speak) in a results orientated manner if and when the EU collapses.
because the next 10-20 years could be an economic nightmare, and with huge social problems when the penny drops that you can't access the single market without being made to accept freedom of movement and if you can't access the single market the future is bleak. It's ok though we'll do 55 trade deals on our terms and no multinationals will leave . Errrrr

We knew all this last week though before the vote.  Nothing has changed.  So why did we bother with the vote?
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #3872 on: June 26, 2016, 07:55:01 PM »

So the future is bleak for every European country not in the EU? Sorry Sweden your future is bleak. How utterly pessimistic and the sort of negative soothsaying that is throwing the aftermath into disarray. Nobody knows end of.
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« Reply #3873 on: June 26, 2016, 07:59:46 PM »

So the future is bleak for every European country not in the EU? Sorry Sweden your future is bleak. How utterly pessimistic and the sort of negative soothsaying that is throwing the aftermath into disarray. Nobody knows end of.

Wtf does the world's 23rd biggest economy have to do with it? As always your persistence is admirable but sometimes you just have to say: "I know nothing about this subject"
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TightEnd
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« Reply #3874 on: June 26, 2016, 08:00:00 PM »

So the future is bleak for every European country not in the EU? Sorry Sweden your future is bleak. How utterly pessimistic and the sort of negative soothsaying that is throwing the aftermath into disarray. Nobody knows end of.
oh Christ I am Going to answer a mantis post. The umwinnable path .If nobody knows we shouldn't be taking such an enormous risk. Sweden and Norway have trade deals, business is set up to operate under those terms. Our corporate sector is going to feel a lot of margin pain adjusting. Yours sincerely doctor of economics with I think half a clue!
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« Reply #3875 on: June 26, 2016, 08:02:25 PM »

Labour have been finished as a serious party for ages now.  As soon as they lost the Scottish vote they were done.  The tories should never have got a majority in the last GE but were gifted it by Labour.  The fact Labour will now lose a monster chunk of votes in their English heartlands and will never be able to win the key swing seats in middle England (maybe not even finish 2nd now in most of these seats never mind win them).

I don't understand why people think leaving the EU is so bad since we voted for it.  Everything we were warned would happen financially short term has happened so far.  There are no surprises.  There will always be short term pain financially just like setting up a new business you don't turn a profit in the first year.  This is no different.

Why wouldn't a Boris or Gove risk their political life/image going for it and making it work?  There is no reason why in 10-20 years this could be looked back on as a great decision by the UK voters to leave the EU when we did (being ahead of the game so to speak) in a results orientated manner if and when the EU collapses.
because the next 10-20 years could be an economic nightmare, and with huge social problems when the penny drops that you can't access the single market without being made to accept freedom of movement and if you can't access the single market the future is bleak. It's ok though we'll do 55 trade deals on our terms and no multinationals will leave . Errrrr

We knew all this last week though before the vote.  Nothing has changed.  So why did we bother with the vote?
clearly a lot of people didint know or thought all experts were shit or other things like taking back control (sic), sovereignity, immigration were more important for their vote
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« Reply #3876 on: June 26, 2016, 08:02:39 PM »

Because we don't have enough spanners in the political works, might I ask what impact the Chilcott Report might have on all this in a couple of weeks?
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« Reply #3877 on: June 26, 2016, 08:05:03 PM »

We knew all this last week though before the vote.  Nothing has changed.  So why did we bother with the vote?

I will repeat the question.  WHY DID WE BOTHER TO VOTE?  

Was it a case of thinking leave would't happen and we will freeroll it knowing if remain wins like it should then we are safe and the wagons will have had their chance to have their say but if it doesn't then remain will still win because we will cry and say we can't operate without the EU.  Was that the arrogant attitude that actually happened and they are now in the shit trying to dig their way out of it?

If the consequences were so bad then why did Cameron even allow the vote to happen in the first place?  Why didn't we decide last week to scrap the vote before it happened rather than just run it like a freeroll?
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The Camel
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« Reply #3878 on: June 26, 2016, 08:06:07 PM »

If we asked 1000 leave voters pre referendum how long it should take to leave the EU if you won, what do you think the average result would be?
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« Reply #3879 on: June 26, 2016, 08:07:13 PM »

Would all this aftermath honestly have ensued if remain had won? Got to be honest and say I am confused by it all.
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« Reply #3880 on: June 26, 2016, 08:07:41 PM »

So the future is bleak for every European country not in the EU? Sorry Sweden your future is bleak. How utterly pessimistic and the sort of negative soothsaying that is throwing the aftermath into disarray. Nobody knows end of.
oh Christ I am Going to answer a mantis post. The umwinnable path .If nobody knows we shouldn't be taking such an enormous risk. Sweden and Norway have trade deals, business is set up to operate under those terms. Our corporate sector is going to feel a lot of margin pain adjusting. Yours sincerely doctor of economics with I think half a clue!

You may have half a clue but you are terrifically persuaded by your own cleverness and the cleverness of the people that just led the country into this complete farce
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« Reply #3881 on: June 26, 2016, 08:07:51 PM »

We knew all this last week though before the vote.  Nothing has changed.  So why did we bother with the vote?

I will repeat the question.  WHY DID WE BOTHER TO VOTE? 

Was it a case of thinking leave would't happen and we will freeroll it knowing if remain wins like it should then we are safe and the wagons will have had their chance to have their say but if it doesn't then remain will still win because we will cry and say we can't operate without the EU.  Was that the arrogant attitude that actually happened and they are now in the shit trying to dig their way out of it?
we had a vote because Cameron had to offer one to stand a chance of keeping the Tories together pre the last ge. He then got unlucky when a half hearted and incompetent eurosceptic was elected Labour leader. So part a huge gamble and part bad luck
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The Camel
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« Reply #3882 on: June 26, 2016, 08:08:30 PM »

We knew all this last week though before the vote.  Nothing has changed.  So why did we bother with the vote?

I will repeat the question.  WHY DID WE BOTHER TO VOTE?  

Was it a case of thinking leave would't happen and we will freeroll it knowing if remain wins like it should then we are safe and the wagons will have had their chance to have their say but if it doesn't then remain will still win because we will cry and say we can't operate without the EU.  Was that the arrogant attitude that actually happened and they are now in the shit trying to dig their way out of it?

LOL, I can't believe you asked this question.

We voted because Cameron put the referendum in the Tory manefesto, to save about 20 MPs losing their seasts to UKIP.

Then when the coalition negotiations started, it would be the first thing ditched by the Tories to the Lib Dems.

Whoops. The Tories accidentally won an outright majority.
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« Reply #3883 on: June 26, 2016, 08:08:50 PM »

If we asked 1000 leave voters pre referendum how long it should take to leave the EU if you won, what do you think the average result would be?

Is it 4 days ?
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« Reply #3884 on: June 26, 2016, 08:09:29 PM »

So the future is bleak for every European country not in the EU? Sorry Sweden your future is bleak. How utterly pessimistic and the sort of negative soothsaying that is throwing the aftermath into disarray. Nobody knows end of.
oh Christ I am Going to answer a mantis post. The umwinnable path .If nobody knows we shouldn't be taking such an enormous risk. Sweden and Norway have trade deals, business is set up to operate under those terms. Our corporate sector is going to feel a lot of margin pain adjusting. Yours sincerely doctor of economics with I think half a clue!

You may have half a clue but you are terrifically persuaded by your own cleverness and the cleverness of the people that just led the country into this complete farce
neither really, the last 72 hours have merely been the latest stage in a complete clusterfuck by both major English parties and a terrible remain campaign
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